Uncle Tom's Cabin

Lew Rockwell ^ | 12/16/03 | Gail Jarvis

[Non-Sequitur]

What issue was most prominent in the American Revolution? Taxes.

And what issue was most prominent in the southern rebellion? Slavery.

Which wars have not been fought over economics?

There have been many, depending on who you listen to. But economics played a big part in the southern rebellion as well. The southern economy was dependent on plantation agriculture. It was the be all and end all of their prosperity. And plantation agriculture was totally dependent on slave labor.

[Non-Sequitur]

Gladly, as soon as youse acknowledge the fact that the North was,in fact, the aggressor during the 'recent unpleasantness'...

How can I acknowledge that which I know to be false? The south was the agressor. The south fired on Sumter, not the other way around. Sumter was the property of the federal government and the army had every right to resupply the troops there.

...and that the denial of states' rights, regardless of the policy in question, was the issue.

What states right was being denied?

Southern rebellion? Even the terminology is biased.

It's a pretty fair description of the southern actions.

[Non-Sequitur]

I don't suppose that you ever noticed the fact that the Democrat party platforms for both the Douglas and Breckenridge factions also called for transcontinental railroads. Both those platforms also called for the acquisition of Cuba, probably through a purchase arrangement. So your problem doesn't seem to be with using public funds for internal (and external) improvements, it's just the ones you don't agree with.

[Smokin' Joe]

OKaay. Name some wars which had nothing to do with economics. Beter yet, (easier) name some whose primary cause was not economics. Remember, political and/or religious domination of any area, especially by force makes the resources of that area available to the victor.

Why did the South depend on slave labor? Because they couldn't get a decent price for their goods without shelling out to the North (who depended on slave labor, too!)? Because profit margins were so low that they had to have huge operations or run at subsistance levels? Like farming today, large operations have grown of the need to make money on volume, rather than just profit margin. The more efficient operations end up absorbing the remnants of the less efficient ones. You end up with 10,000 acre wheat farms that way, only now, you would buy mechanical devices to do the work. Ultimately, this is cheaper to operate, you only have to feed them when they are working.

Manumission was gaining ground in the South, it is far cheaper to hire someone and let them fend for themselves than to be the owner and have to provide housing, clothing, food, medical care, etc.

Harriet Beecher Stowe wrote a NOVEL! Just because it has been made into a Yankee Mein Kampf by historical revisionists seeking to banish the culture that, by and large wrote the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and The Declaration of Independance, does not make it true, or a balanced assesment of the issues of the day.

[mac_truck]

For the sake of argument, would you be so kind to point out the "name"?

right here. post 14

4CJ- Careful, you'll tick off the "Saint" Lincoln crowd.

That sounds like some [a priori] name-calling to me, especially since your side brought Lincoln up in the first place.

[KDD]

In August, 1862 Lincoln wrote a letter to Horace Greeley, an editor of the New York Tribune, who published an open letter insisting President Lincoln free the slaves immediately. In Lincoln's reply he wrote "If I could save the Union without freeing any slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could do it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also so that"(Voices of America, p.138). Lincoln objective was to save the Union, not to either save or destroy slavery.

He saved the Union...but we lost a Constitutional Republic in the process.

[bk1000]

It's all in how you choose to look at it, Non.

Southerners see the Yankees as the aggressors, hence "The War of Northern Aggression"

One might argue the right of the Soviets to "re-supply" Cuba
also. So what if a few extra nukes ended up in the shipment?

The right of a sovereign state to secede from the union.
(I know this 'right' is arguable)

Secession is to rebellion as freedom fighter is to terrorist

I won't argue that the world, much less the US, is a better place than it would be had the Confederacy prevailed. Had secession been allowed, and had slavery continued, popular opinion would have eventually ended it through economic sanctions and boycotts, and the CSA would probably resemble Europe. I started this simply to warn someone about getting sucked in to this very thing! Perhaps I should follow my own advice. You may never understand southern pride, but that's OK. It's not a bad thing, as celebrated by most.

[Gianni]

Actually, a lot of these threads hit 1000+ posts, and nobody's opinion is ever changed.

Between the WBTS, animal rights, homeschooling, and drug war threads, you've pretty much captured 99% of the controversy on FR.

[Gianni]

just as soon as y'all acknowledge the positive aspects of the Northern defense.

That's offense Non.

[Zack Nguyen]

But defense of the institution of slavery was by far the single most important reason for the rebellion.

This is true. It amazes me that some people just want to let that slide.

[bk1000]

"Between the WBTS, animal rights, homeschooling, and drug war threads, you've pretty much captured 99% of the controversy on FR."

The good I see here, is that if we are argueing these points among ourselves, then all is well. Seems we only band together when the leftists are up to their shennanigans. As the wind is, for the moment, out of their sails, we can rejoice and debate with seemingly intelligent people, rather that pull out our hair trying to open the eyes of liberals!

[4CJ]

That sounds like some [a priori] name-calling to me, especially since your side brought Lincoln up in the first place.

Writing that such statements might attract those that venerate Lincoln and consider him a saint is name calling? I can think of a lot worse ;o)

[mac_truck]

the culture that, by and large wrote the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and The Declaration of Independance,

Hmm, and what culture would that be Joe? The tidewater arisotcrats who owned all the slaves perhaps?

Taking a look at who actually signed the Declaration of Independence, you don't find a lot of southern back country yeomen do you?

[4CJ]

The other 1% is about sisters being bitten by a moose while eating cheese after taking a shower while singing "All your base are belong to us", pondering whether said moose is a neo-con and how many lightbulbs did the sister change. Of course, somewhere in that time she posts a vanity "Am I logged on", and then further humiliated by not knowing the "Word for the Day" she opused causing 4 other Freepers to be Zotted for not being Bush-bots.

<>I pray for us!

[Old Professer]

The only difference between slavery and welfare is slavery required fewer middlemen.

[RightWhale]

Has anybody in the past 20 years actually read UTC? The book hardened a lot of minds before the Civil War. Bestseller, not bad for a first novel, but not polished. There's a lot better writing nowdays on the drugstore bookrack, but none of it is likely to have that kind of social impact.

[Gianni]

The other 1% is about sisters being bitten by a moose while eating cheese after taking a shower while singing "All your base are belong to us", pondering whether said moose is a neo-con and how many lightbulbs did the sister change. Of course, somewhere in that time she posts a vanity "Am I logged on", and then further humiliated by not knowing the "Word for the Day" she opused causing 4 other Freepers to be Zotted for not being Bush-bots.

My turn to warn you! Now this thread is doomed for sure.

[4CJ]

My turn to warn you! Now this thread is doomed for sure.

Lol! I'm not kidding, I'm series. This is hugh!

[x]

If you want to understand why wars break out, you can't just look in at the last minute before the war starts. You have to follow the arguments and disputes that may go on for years before the actual fighting begins. While both slavery and tariffs had been points of contention in the history of the republic, Adams has to ignore the increasingly embittered debate over that had been going on since the Kansas-Nebraska Act (1854) to reach his perverse conclusions.

Adams and Pearston apparently can't believe that many people once strongly supported slavery and considered it a necessary pillar of Southern society. A lot of people have trouble understanding or accepting that. So they construct a model in which slavery didn't matter, had no strong support, and was bound somehow to disappear on its own. From such a starting point, they don't have trouble concluding that slavery was a minor factor in bringing on secession and war, but their model is flawed, in so far as there definitely was support for preserving, protecting, and extending slavery and a panic about how a Republican President could damage slaveholders' interests.

"Slavery a Positive Good"

[Gianni]

It would all be laughable, were it not for the fact that a moose ate my baby sister.