Posted on 12/16/2003 5:54:51 AM PST by sitetest
Edited on 12/16/2003 7:13:44 AM PST by Lead Moderator. [history]
One defends on the flank on which he is being attacked. If you want to argue that we are too strict, we point out our freedom. If you want to argue that we encourage indifferentism, we point out our dogma.
To me it seems we are neither too strict nor too lenient. It seems we are just right.
SD
Yes, for every religious question, is this not so?
Catholics claim a fuller revelation, partly based upon that which is not found in the scriptures, ... while Protestants claim a more restricted revelation ... limited to what is found in the scriptures.
Well, yes. Since you say "claim."
I would argue that the Protestant tradition of Biblical interpretation, including the very idea of sola scriptura is itself extra-Biblical.
And , the Catholic interpretation, the understanding of Scripture is a part of what was revealed, along with the words themselves.
SD
Whoops ... wrong quote in post #720. Correction follows ...
God has revealed to us all that He intends to. Revelation is over.
For us on earth, that is.
So ... it appears that the question comes down to ... what has truly been revealed by God ... and what has not ?
Catholics claim a fuller revelation, partly based upon that which is not found in the scriptures, ... while Protestants claim a more restricted revelation ... limited to what is found in the scriptures.
You don't think it's inconsistent to criticize NC freedom of doctrine, while claiming much the same thing for yourself, just because of the alleged proportions?
I would argue that the Protestant tradition of Biblical interpretation, including the very idea of sola scriptura is itself extra-Biblical.
Jesus didn't seem to think so ...John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.And, the Catholic interpretation, the understanding of Scripture is a part of what was revealed, along with the words themselves.
Even if the words aren't there ?
I don't criticise anybody's "freedom," just the results of using it.
Without a visible authority, you can fall for just about anything. And have.
Abiding by our authority leaves us free to inquire, but not to fall into mortal error.
SD
Jesus didn't seem to think so ...
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
You think that's a sola scriptura proof text?
Jesus says that the OT Scriptures testify of Him. They do. There's no controversy.
Jesus doesn't say that only these Scriptures do so, nor that He intended us to live by just these Scriptures.
And, the Catholic interpretation, the understanding of Scripture is a part of what was revealed, along with the words themselves.
Even if the words aren't there ?
What words aren't there?
SD
As "obviously flawed and inconsistent" as the Church is, in your eyes.
And thus will it ever be. If you can't tell the difference between having an authority who sets boundaries and having no visible authority, this merry-go-round will continue. See ya next spin!
SD
Without a visible authority, you can fall for just about anything. And have.
With a claimed ongoing infallible human authority, you can fall into step on just about anything ... and have.
Abiding by our authority leaves us free to inquire, but not to fall into mortal error.
Making the Apostles our authority gives us a unchanging standard of belief, ... such that when God points out any error to us, ... we may repent and turn from it.
And what guarantees that your "visible authorities" aren't in error? "Because we say they can't be"?
Jesus doesn't say that only these Scriptures do so, nor that He intended us to live by just these Scriptures.
The necessary heart of the Gospel message is Jesus.
Jesus commands that we search for Him in the scriptures.
When we have found Him, we have all we need.
What words aren't there?
Anything on the assumption of Mary ?
Prophecy will do.
Not exclusively. Besides, as I pointed out, this is in regards to His fulfilling OT prophecy. It's specific.
SD
Perfect example. This is indeed a truth testified to by Tradition. It was revealed, but not in Scripture. At least not explicitly.
SD
I think it's because that's when the "Anti-Church", within the Church,signaled the secular press,with whom they work hand and glove to go full tilt.The "insiders" which include about 30 bishops and cardinals as well as members of Call To Action,VOTF,We Are Church have been dumbing down Catholics for quite some time in anticipation of this total assault on Catholicism,Christianity and Western Civilization.
As those within used abysmal catechetics,looney liturgies and various tehcniques to take God and the Trinity out of the Church they were taking the temperature of those in the pews. I think at the end of 2001,they saw a rise in the temperature and knew they had to go hard and fast with everything they had been accumulating for 30,40 years before the "dead" came to life again.
It has taken longer than they had hoped because they did not foresee that some folks were still awake enough to recognize that homosexuality in the priesthood was closer to the root of the abuse problem than the pedophilia on which they were trying to ride to victory.
So the poor Church in this country,infiltrated at every level with Marxists,Fabian socialists and the lavenders struggles along hanging onto the Barque of Peter,praying that God will protect us all as we journey home,back to Him telling all along the way what He had told the Apostles.
"All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.
Going therefore,teach ye all nations;baptizing them in the name of the Father,and of the Son,and of the Holy Ghost.
Teaching to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; and behold I am with you all days,even to the consummation of the world."Last chapter of Matthew/Douay-Rheims.
Reggie,you are in Boston,certainly you saw the almost simultaneous appearance of the Globe stories and the founding of VOTF.That group is composed of the same old bitter dissidents,malcontents and egomaniacal godpeople that make up the membership of a variety of old internal enemies of the Catholic Church. Follow VOTF's ties and connections to the secular world and you will identify the true enemies of the Triune God.
You can't be shocked about that, can you? I fully expected it. That's just how they are.
I know. Soon they'll want to move into the neighborhood and marry our sisters. It's good to keep them down.
SD
Dave, how do Catholics interpret the following ... ?1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
That what we know, what has been revealed, even if "the fullness of Truth," is but a shadow of real knowledge of God.
As I said earlier, when we approach God and are transformed we will suddenly know and understand and see clearly for the first time in our life. We will feel God's love unfiltered for the first time. We will also view ourselves in that same light for the first time. We will then see God as He truly Is.
SD
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.