IBM to Export Highly Paid Jobs to India, China

Yahoo News ^ | Dec 15, 2003 | William M. Bulkeley and Peter Fritsch

[oceanview]

one is corrupt, one is totalitarian.

[oceanview]

the ratio of profits earned in the US versus employment would set their tax rate. If they get big contracts in India, and staff those with Indian workers, that's fine with me. But that is not what we have here, their profits from the Indian market are tiny, their US profits are huge, they send American jobs to India to work profitable contracts they get in the US.

[The Electrician]

It doesn't matter what the decision to boycott is based upon. The customer is always right. Either listen to what the (American) customer(s) wants (or doesn't want) or lose marketshare. Period.

Um, whether or not you spice up your statements with "Period.", your line of argument is unconvincing. It is one and the same as the "do something, anything" approach that got Clinton elected. I understand the sentiment, I just can not find any rational basis to support unthinking mob behavior that generates counterproductive results. If your goal is preserving American jobs, then taking actions that are guaranteed to hurt American jobs is simply the wrong approach. It may make you feel good as you buy your HP server or laptop out of righteous indignation, but it is a wrongheaded, knee jerk reaction that will work against your professed goal. But, this is probably a dead horse already, so I guess that I should be merciful and just let it be...

[ZeitgeistSurfer]

Finding less costly means to resolve civil disputes is essential but I am afraid the answer will not ever be found in the legal community.

As I've stated before when the subject of job loss and outsourcing comes up, I advise all people entering college not to consider a scientific or engineering career (and that includes medicine). The only profession that has a long-term future is (tort) law - especially when it involves international trade. As we decimate the professional middle class, only the preditors and vultures will prosper. Seems like our young people don't need much prompting by the way - the engineering classes in major universities are all filled with foreign students and the law schools are overflowing with Americans. They got the message.

[dhs12345]

Very good point! Same with Taiwan. Some pretty huge semiconductor fabs that U.S. companies rely upon are in Taiwan.

What happens to these fabs and the U.S. companies if China annexes Taiwan?

[dhs12345]

The point is: who will be able to afford IBM PCs if there are few decent paying jobs here in the U.S.?

Other businesses? Those other businesses may be out of business, too because no one can afford their products. And so on...

Consumers drive the U.S. economy. High "Consumer Confidence" carried the economy through the recent downturn.

[Jim Cane]

It may make you feel good as you buy your HP server or laptop out of righteous indignation, but it is a wrongheaded, knee jerk reaction that will work against your professed goal.

LOL! My business, which utilizes decidedly non-IBM solutions, is up 20% 4Q with no slack in contracts for 1Q and 2Q '04.

I guess that I should be merciful and just let it be...

Yes, TE, you should quit while you're a behind.

[dhs12345]

When compared to the rest of the world, the average citizen in the U.S. is very wealthy.

This type of "equalization" will certainly mean that we will become poorer.

Maybe a lot poorer.

[dfwgator]

The bottom line is to make sure that your job contributes to the bottom line directly. If it doesn't, it is a good candidate to be outsourced.

[dhs12345]

I hope you are right.

However, who will be able to afford the products that these small businesses sell? If there are fewer high paying jobs.

[The Old Hoosier]

All benefit because costs are now slightly reduced for every activity involving a computer. As I've repeated above ad nauseam, slightly more resources are freed up for investment and job creation by individuals and businesses here at home. It's like a small tax cut.

Also, companies like IBM make themselves more viable in the long run by cutting costs, so that the rest of the jobs continue to exist.

[RogueIsland]

Also, companies like IBM make themselves more viable in the long run by cutting costs, so that the rest of the jobs continue to exist.

I think that should read "Also, companies like IBM make their executives fatter bonuses and bigger golden parachutes by offshoring, so that the rest of the American jobs can be traitorously exported to third world labor pest holes at a later date."

[The Old Hoosier]

who will be able to afford IBM PCs if there are few decent paying jobs here in the U.S.?

This is the wrong question. We don't keep jobs in this country by preventing them from going elsewhere. That's like trying to make the economy stand still. We keep them here by creating them here.

This is how it has always happened in the past. Otherwise, we would have at least 30% unemployment today, when you consider how many jobs have been lost in the American manufacturing, mining and agricultural economy in the last 50 years. Yet we're not even close to that. We enjoy unprecedented convenience, comfort and health. The same will come in the future as long as Americans continue to produce ideas or supply the means and know-how to put other people's ideas into action.

We have a head start on this because we are so advanced as to have the leisure to keep our eyes open for the next big thing. It's true, there are no guarantees. But it's pointless to try to stop the train by standing in front of it.

[The Old Hoosier]

Let me post to you what I just posted to someone else. If your view of the world is correct, answer this:

Why don't we have 30% unemployment today, considering all the mining, manufacturing, and agricultural jobs that have been lost to overseas in the last 50 years?

[singsong]

I can only do so much for you in the short time given. Others got it, you didn't. Your problem, not mine.

[GOP_1900AD]

All of which leads me to implore the young to undertake two additional career paths: Military and Defense Contracting. In opposition to the oft cited assertions that our current globalist frenzy shall lead to a utopia of world peace, I view it as being in line with past epochs where the subordination of cultures and nation states to "trade" were simply times when the kettle was getting ready to boil. The hypermercantilist fervor is the flame. War will come.

[Paul Ross]

more resources are freed up for investment and job creation by individuals and businesses here at home.

Actually, to the extent the resources are 'freed up for investment' there is no logical reason for the Resources EVER again to go individuals and businesses 'here at home' because the life-style cost of living of our people is 10,000 times higher than those of the Chinese slaves. The 'Resources' will have developed a taste and a habit of going to the cheapest labor which will always be China...until they defeat us in World War IV. Which may be a lot sooner than you realize.

In the interim, the logic of your position is that Americans should live in mud huts and boxes, and eat the rats in the streets. Then they would be 'competitive'. I'm sure that would make them feel ever so much better.

[The Old Hoosier]

Then let me ask you what I just asked someone else:

Why don't we have 30% unemployment today, considering all the mining, manufacturing, and agricultural jobs that have been lost to overseas in the last 50 years?

[ZeitgeistSurfer]

All of which leads me to implore the young to undertake two additional career paths: Military and Defense Contracting.

Good advice. We are near the end of the long Pax Americana.

[Paul Ross]

Why don't we have 30% unemployment today, considering all the mining, manufacturing, and agricultural jobs that have been lost to overseas in the last 50 years?

Simple. First, when subemployment and non-counted unemployeds are added in, we probably do have about a 11-12% unemployment rate. So it is bad enough already.

Second, an historical fact that the Cato-ites ignore. Protectionist Quotas implemented by Ronald Reagan to protect Steel, Automobiles etc. kept those industries alive against a concerted foreign effort to eradicate them. Today, we still have a lot of foreign auto companies placing plants here...but for no other reason. But I predict when the WTO gets around to it, that will all end, and we will see 40% and higher unemployment here after the U.S. automobile industry is relocated to China. The WTO will prevent high-wage societies from doing anything to bolster their position against the race-to-bottom crowd. And enemies from within, such as Cato will actively act as accomplices with the foreign-funded and directed lobbying campaigns to prevent the U.S. from defending itself. Hence, this assault will have no happy ending for U.S. workers by and large. The rare individuals who start new enterprises and make them actually work so they don't get enslaved to the mom and pop shop are just that. The majority of the dislocateds prefer...and the majority likely need employment and stability.