Army Right To Punish Lt. Col. West

Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 8 Dec 2003 | Jay Bookman

[Publius6961]

The captured a GITMO have no right to Geneva convention treatment because they first violate almost all the rules for being treated as prisoners of war unlike the American soldiers captured in Vietnam. To refer to the situations as analogous is loathesome. To refer to the US distinction as an "excuse" is ignorant. The Geneva convention is supposed to provide a motivation for soldiers not to descend into utter barbarism by providing the incentive of civilized treatment if captured if they have followed certain rules. If those who disregard those rules are treated exactly the same as those who don't, that incentive disappears.

BIG BUMP!

Subtleties such as these are lost, I fear, on some rulebound members of the "new army". Robots who need to be told where to sit, and when to eat, and when to...

In his innumerable books and articles Victor Davis Hansen has identified (over and over again) initiative and ruthlessness as the characteristics of the "Western" way of war from ancient Greece to the present, and is precisely why western civilization is preeminent today.
The very civilization that allows the marginally competent to wax poetic about "rules" being the end in themselves.

[elbucko]

The thought that now, our military is practicing "political correctness" to the extent that they will punish an American Hero for not giving "equality" to our enemy is simply insanity to me.

It is, isn't it. This is the sort of policy that creates "quagmires" out of success.

[Ispy4u]

No, I simply know how important it is to uphold the discipline of the military. I would expect no less to happen to me were I to break the law.

[Broadside Joe]

It's just as simple as this.(1) This brought it to our attention. (2) I've said it again and again and again, It is this same BS that stopped a Predator from putting a hellfire up Mullah Omar's tailpipe. Now speaking of hellfire, I wouldn't have wanted to be the yahoo you prevented it when Rummy found out.

[Ispy4u]

We will lose soldiers in war, but with the informatin LTC West already had there were many ways to mitigate that risk. Awareness of a plan is almost as good as having the whole plan for good commanders, that is the way 99% of our operations are conducted anyway.

Look at the number of attacks on our troops daily and the number of our troops killed. The enemy is nowhere near 100% effective, and for you to give them that credit is an insult to our well trained and motivated soldiers.

[verity]

#28.<P.
It is called murder, you stupid shit.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

When did the army go PC?

I served for three years during the Nixon administration and was taught from day one that I could not do this type thing, so I guess it was before then??? What did the UCMJ say when you served?

[Hostage]

Da Mav you were very perceptive to notice the leanings of the writer of this piece. Seems we have a lot of posters here that are very ready to support the writer's opinion without knowing the facts and without noticing the writer's bias. Kudos to the both of you.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

I agree with you which is why I would find him guilty but also find no punishment.

I could live with that, though the liberal press would go nuts.

[Feckless]

As an American citizen I can applaud LTC West. As a leader of soldiers in combat I can understand, even accept a rationalized justification. I may have done the same thing in the same situation.

As an NCO or Officer charged with the accomplishment of a mission, the care and safety of my troops, and the responsibility to not only abide by but to enforce the laws of war I cannot support his alleged actions.

As the commander he would be duty bound to arrest, confine, and prosecute any member of his command who he suspected had performed these or similar alleged acts.

Civilians and some soldiers (especially his troops) may support his alleged actions. The U.S. Government, the military, the Army, Commanders and NCOs at all levels, and especially LTC West know that, if true, his actions were illegal and must be punished.

Today’s military is highly trained, well motivated, and professional. The last thing we need is an unruly mob lead by people who ignore laws and disobey orders and regulations.

[verity]

I am convinced that you are simply provoking controversy for self satisfying purposes.

[mhking]

Dramatize the event if you need to, but there is a clear distinction between rules of conduct while in battle, and once you have captured them.

Activities conducted in the theater of operations (i.e., Baghdad), still count as battlefield activities.

It's not a matter of dramatizing anything.

This isn't a police interrogation room where you drag a perp in, Mirandize him and begin to question him until he calls for a lawyer.

[Ispy4u]

Do you or do you not expect your armed forces to obey and respect the laws you have imposed on them?

If you do not, then I hope you have a nice house, I just might be by to take it over for um, military purposes, yeah that's it.

[Jeff Head]

We have been over and over this same ground a number of times in the threads...

Colonel West...you've got my back anytime

-and-

LTC West responds to FR article

I have not changed my opinion in the least, for all of the same reasons we discussed then. Clearly, you have not changed yours either.

The case is in the hands of the military justice system now and we will both have to live with their verdict, whatever it is. After speaking with many more combat veterans of both the Pacific war in WW II (including my own father) and the Korean war...who are appalled by the military prosecuting this man and believe they have lost their collective minds, and, again, for the reasons I enumerated in those threads...I just hope the charges are dropped and he is allowed to retire with his full military benefits.

We shall see. God bless all of those to serve and particularly who put themselves and their all on the line to accomplish their mission in defending liberty and preserving America (and American lives).

[Ispy4u]

Battlefield commanders conduct operations not interrogations. Interrogations are information related activities for support of battlefield operations. Combat is combat, combat support is combat support. They are not and never will be one in the same.

It simply suits you belief to blur those lines but that doesn't make it so.

Maybe we could just drive through Baghdad and shoot everything that moves, hey, it's a battlefield right?

[Ben Bolt]

I see you've paged the usual menu . Have fun if you must but I'll work with Ltc. West anytime .

[Publius6961]

Where has your concern for rule book monkeys been for the past two years?

You misunderstand me. I have nothing but disdain for rule book monkeys, present company included.
Shall we agree to disagree? and to continue to choose our friends according to our individual understanding of history, proportionality, human nature and a firm grasp of what rules are, why they exist, when exceptions are the right thing to do and most importantly, what is the purpose of ugly, nasty, brutish war.

[Ispy4u]

Well said.

[William Terrell]

Was this prisoner killed? Was he seriously hurt? Is he still alive?

[Ispy4u]

Why do you say that?

My stance has been the same since this story broke, and the more I learned about it the more compelled I have felt to voice my opinion that me and thousands of other soldiers follow orders based in law not because we are "girly men" but because we have honor and trust in our leaders.

You elected them, they made the laws, we follow them.