Army Right To Punish Lt. Col. West

Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 8 Dec 2003 | Jay Bookman

[Ispy4u]

The soldiers had a duty to report it too. Every single member of the military is bound by law to do so.

They may not have liked him, but they may very well have been doing the right thing, ever look at it that way?

[caspera]

It is even more difficult to condemn West for violating the standards of the Geneva Convention for warfare and occupation when more senior U.S. officials are themselves treating those rules as inconvenient guidelines that can be ignored at will. The hundreds of prisoners captured in Afghanistan and held under harsh conditions by the United States in Guantanamo Bay, for example, have been ruled ineligible for protection under the Geneva Convention because they are supposedly "enemy combatants" rather than prisoners of war.

What a jackass statement. In order for the Geneva convention to apply, the captured must at the least: A) Be uniformed so as to distinguish between from the civilian popuplation B) Be in service to a State C) Not operate deliberabtely amongst a civilian population. The captured a GITMO have no right to Geneva convention treatment because they first violate almost all the rules for being treated as prisoners of war unlike the American soldiers captured in Vietnam. To refer to the situations as analogous is loathesome. To refer to the US distinction as an "excuse" is ignorant. The Geneva convention is supposed to provide a motivation for soldiers not to descend into utter barbarism by providing the incentive of civilized treatment if captured if they have followed certain rules. If those who disregard those rules are treated exactly the same as those who don't, that incentive disappears.

The United States is thus actually giving meaning to the Geneva convection by making this distinction.

[Broadside Joe]

OK, every single one should be promoted. And for those that are doing this to these fine solders should be booted out of the army now! Enough of the PC BS. What a waste of taxpayers money.

[Ispy4u]

Please post your proof that LTC West saved lives because of his actions.

[Ispy4u]

LTC West is not being charged with breach of Geneva Conventions, he failed to follow orders regarding treatment of prisoners. As a result he is being charged with assault.

You are only confusing the situation by not looking to the basic breach of discipline, and that is all he is charged with.

[Publius6961]

Under the strain of command in a dangerous situation, Lt. Col. Allen West committed a serious error in judgment.

Excellent fornat for an article. The crux is right up front.

What an excellent illustration of a faulty premise leading to a significant saving in time not having to read the remainder of the article. The editor's assertion is an opinion, pure and simple. Where rules are concerned, there are those circumscribed by their intellect and imagination; brain-bound, so to speak, to the "following orders" mentality, the ends in itself.
I have no desire whatsoever to engage them in further debate about the "rightness" or "wrongness" of Col. West's actions. I still believe and hold that he did the right thing.

Isolated and chosen exceptions to rules are the hallmark of true leaders.
That I would fight alongside Col West is the best affirmation of putting my life where my mouth is.
Can't say that for the ding dongs who perpetually sit on their "rulebooks".

[Ispy4u]

Then do your civic duty and lobby to change the rules. Soldiers cannot be involved in political movements especially those regarding military rules. I will follow those laws and lawful orders as well.

[Ispy4u]

Remember to stifle your complaints if the military were to decide laws against homeland operations are useless too.

Laws and rules have purposes larger than the individual. You want to change them do your civic duty and petition congress for changes, until then you have a right to expect the military to follow orders backed by law made by a government you elected. I will follow those laws too.

[Publius6961]

But those and other distinctions are part of why we're fighting. We believe such rules are important to civilized life; our opponents do not.

Sophistry had rotted our culture so thoroughly that many tend to accept it as "civilized" sophistication. Personally I can smell BS, still.

Those familiar with Winston Churchill's life are well aware of his unique position to comment on things both political and martial. One of his observations recurs in my mind as I see this continuing debate.
During the dark days of WWII, when things looked grimmest and hopeless, and unconventional warfare being fought (and criticized), he made his famous observation:

No "good" civilized society was ever saved from oblivion by the actions of girlie men. (Paraphrased) Or rule-book jockeys, I might add.

[Broadside Joe]

Then this does prove that the critics are right. They do in fact have one hand tied behind their back.

"Soldiers cannot be involved in political movements"

This I can understand but I think that the outpouring of support for LTC West should be just a slight hint to the military bureaucrats the American people are in no mood to be playing footsie with terrorists. You can't be using baseball rules in a rugby game.

[Fletcher J]

I also agree that Lt. Col. West should be punished for his actions that day.

This is the best way we can prove to our soldiers (and the world) that this country isn't yet serious about ending the terrorist threat. In addition, ruining Lt. Col. West's 19.999 year career over a single incident will help persuade other officers to choose the "career safe" decision over the one likely to get results. Really screwing this guy over in the last months before retirement will drive home the point. (Sarcasm)

Condemnations of West's actions may make some people feel morally superior, but you can be assured that our enemies (the type of people who strap explosives to their own children) don't respect this navel gazing - this encourages them, as they once again question our commitment to stop them.

Fletcher J

[mhking]

Nor was it clear that the suspect was guilty.

Nor was there time for a tribunal to determine that.

Colonel West made a battlefield decision.

West's critics are engaged in Monday morning quarterbacking of an unprecedented degree. Would you have all battlefield decisions revisited if it unduly "frightens" an enemy combattant?

You want to question the Administration and it's rationale? That's one thing. But when you begin to call battlefield decisions into question, simply because they offend sensibilities, you begin to undermine the entire code and concept of military justice.

[raybbr]

Man, you really got in for this guy (West). Is it something personal?

[Puppage]

Lt. Col. Allen West committed a serious error in judgment

Oh! I see......a better idea would have been to let his men walk into an ambush? Idiot.Was the wittle muslims self esteem hurt? Was the wittle mussy scared?

God bless Col. West!!

[LoudRepublicangirl]

West saved AMERICAN lives. To me, that's all that counts. I am not sorry that American G.I.'s were saved as a result of his actions.

[Vision]

Jay Bookman is the deputy editorial page editor.

...and is unAmerican.

[Dudoight]

Well said! Thanks!

[raybbr]

Please post your proof that LTC West saved lives because of his actions.

How about you proving if he hadn't acted that way he did that American would not have died.

[Ispy4u]

Where has your concern for rule book monkeys been for the past two years?

Why do you wise souls wait until now to want to untie our hands?

The American Military will fight it's wars in accordance with accepted methods approved by our leaders, the elected civilian command structure and their officials.

To expect us to do anything other than follow the rules you have given us is crazy. Expect us to be creative, innovative, unpredictable, and overwhelming, but you have to ensure the military as a whole is accountable to follow the rules given us. To do otherwise begs for third world military dictatorship to visit you personally.

[Ispy4u]

Prisoner interrogation is not a "battlefield" decision. Dramatize the event if you need to, but there is a clear distinction between rules of conduct while in battle, and once you have captured them.