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US to Taiwan: don't provoke China (So much for standing for freedom GW.)
UPI ^
| 12/8/03
| staff
Posted on 12/08/2003 5:56:54 PM PST by dinok
Edited on 07/12/2004 3:40:58 PM PDT by Jim Robinson.
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To: dinok
WTF
The President is sending a message - we will sell you out at the first opportunity, and that supporting freedom and democracy is just talk.
He sends the same message to Israel.
21
posted on
12/08/2003 7:35:04 PM PST
by
adam_az
To: dwilli
What can GWB do if China decides to invade Taiwan? It ain't like We have any forces to deploy. The only option is the Nuclear option. Before they even invade, there will be obvious signs of a major military buildup. Once we detect this massive buildup, we can discreetly tell the Chinese that we intend to block them, and they should back down before they get embarassed. They know we can stop their entire navy without breaking a sweat, and that a major defeat would be politically devastating to them.
It's just that easy. The only reason we're not more vocal now is that we don't need to be. Its in our interest to keep this situation cool, and avoid hurt feelings.
22
posted on
12/08/2003 7:38:29 PM PST
by
Steel Wolf
(Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. - Groucho Marx)
To: CasearianDaoist
Any war with China would be a Nuclear War, and a devastating one at that. The last thing China would do is launch a nuclear weapon at us. They know two things for certain. We won't launch at them first, and that if we do lanch, we'll blow them off the map and set up new factories in India. They've got less than 100 nuclear weapons, and less than top of the line ICBMs. We've got thousands of missiles, and we won't miss.
23
posted on
12/08/2003 7:41:10 PM PST
by
Steel Wolf
(Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. - Groucho Marx)
To: Bombard
Taiwan has been considered part of China for several hundred years. Now think if California was voting for independence, would the national government stand for something like that. I think not. The USA is committed to one China. What the USA is against is the mainland imposing a government on Taiwan. This referendum is a mistake and the Taiwanese government is playing with fire. China never considered the island of Formosa theirs until the Nationalist government fled there in 1949. The USA is committed to One China but is also committed by the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 to defend Taiwan, a pledge that President Bush reiterated in 2001.
That said, a referendum would not be prudent. Taiwan should instead continue to press for its admission to international organizations like WHO on humanitarian grounds, and pursue diplomatic relations with any country it can.
24
posted on
12/08/2003 7:44:39 PM PST
by
tellw
To: hchutch
It's more like we're saying "CHILDREN! BEHAVE!"
25
posted on
12/08/2003 7:44:56 PM PST
by
Poohbah
("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
To: dinok
I don't believe this crud from the N.Y. Crimes.
To: Steel Wolf
If China were to decide to take Taiwan, It would be over before the Seventh Fleet could get underway. Our only assistance would be FBM's already on station.
27
posted on
12/08/2003 7:46:52 PM PST
by
dwilli
To: dwilli
What do you suggest doing? We clearly do not have the combat forces to support the Taiwanese. What on earth are you talking about? To invade Taiwan would be a military feat several times more complicated than the invasion of Normandy. It's unlikely, although debatable, whether or not the Chinese could do it even if we stayed neutral.
Ground forces notwithstanding, we've got enough naval power to swat away any landing force. You can't have an amphibious invasion without control of the sea lanes, and they sure as hell aren't going to control the skies. Even if they did, they don't have enough airlift to get their airborne forces into the game in sufficent numbers to make a difference.
This is to say nothing of resupply, command and control, communications, joint forces coordination, etc.
28
posted on
12/08/2003 7:48:19 PM PST
by
Steel Wolf
(Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. - Groucho Marx)
To: gooleyman
I don't believe this crud from the N.Y. Crimes
President George W. Bush may have stripped down White House protocol in keeping with a time of "war" but Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao will get "spectacular" treatment Tuesday, complete with a 19-gun salute, an official said.
Wen will arrive at the presidential mansion for a South Lawn ceremony only offered during this administration to visiting heads of state, a senior administration official said.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/031209/1/3giuk.html China's Wen to get 19-gun salute, "spectacular" pomp from White House
Full ChiCom suckup mode.
29
posted on
12/08/2003 7:52:01 PM PST
by
adam_az
To: dwilli
If China were to decide to take Taiwan, It would be over before the Seventh Fleet could get underway. Our only assistance would be FBM's already on station Nonsense. Imagine trying to organize several Operation Overlord sized assaults without anyone noticing. Far too many moving parts to hide, and far too much risk in doing so. It's not like they've got the PLA waiting down by the docks for someone to sound the 'invasion' alarm.
30
posted on
12/08/2003 7:54:05 PM PST
by
Steel Wolf
(Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. - Groucho Marx)
To: dinok
Let me get this straight. You think it is a good idea today for Taiwan to provoke a Chinese attack?
Or is the Bush Administration suggesting that we don't really want to start that war just yet?
31
posted on
12/08/2003 7:55:56 PM PST
by
Dog Gone
To: dinok
I don't guess that China wnats to invade Taiwan in at least the near or middle range future.
32
posted on
12/08/2003 7:59:35 PM PST
by
Az Joe
To: dinok
This just says he advises Taiwan not to provoke China and a request to delay the referendum. It's just words to please the Chinese and not even harsh words that would keep a determined Taiwan from going for the referendum anyway.
33
posted on
12/08/2003 8:04:50 PM PST
by
DeuceTraveler
((wedgie free for all, except classical liberals))
To: dinok
Its all about the cash deals the Chicoms have made with politicians of both parties. They owned Clinton...now we see where GW stands. This isn't the same thing. GW has no need to provoke China. So long as we do smart things, like pressure China to pressure North Korea, and help their economy, we strengthen the factions of their government that want reform. If we do dumb things like act menacing and start throwing our weight around, it will strengthen the hand of the military, who doesn't really care for democracy or reform.
Since we can beat them either way, it makes more sense to not fight at all. Taiwan stays free, we don't have to start another war, and China continues to inch towards becoming a modern, more 'civilized' nation.
34
posted on
12/08/2003 8:07:45 PM PST
by
Steel Wolf
(Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. - Groucho Marx)
To: DeuceTraveler
This just says he advises Taiwan not to provoke China and a request to delay the referendum. It's just words to please the Chinese and not even harsh words that would keep a determined Taiwan from going for the referendum anyway. I'm sure all the harsh words are handled behind the scenes. It's in our best interest to do it that way. The fact that this even came up at all seems like the occasional reminder Taiwan likes to give that the PRC doesn't run their show.
The best way to deal with the Chinese is discreetly, as once things become public they may be forced into positions they don't like in order to save face.
35
posted on
12/08/2003 8:10:38 PM PST
by
Steel Wolf
(Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. - Groucho Marx)
To: Dog Gone; Poohbah
That's the thing...
Besides, the ChiComs have a lot of problems of their own.
Taiwan will not be sold out by George W. Bush, but at the same time, should the PRC attack them, they will not be able to say we egged Taiwan on.
That last part is crucial, folks. It will make life easier for us when the PRC is at the Security Council complaining about the loss of a fair portion of their fleet.
36
posted on
12/08/2003 8:11:49 PM PST
by
hchutch
("I don't see what the big deal is, I really don't." - Major Vic Deakins, USAF (ret.))
To: dinok
Handing Honk Kong and the Panama canal, plus selling cutting-edge missile tech to the ChiComs was a great idea.
37
posted on
12/08/2003 8:12:16 PM PST
by
Spruce
(RTFM)
To: dinok
I agree that we tend to kowtow too much to China.
I don't know that there were a lot of options for Bush short of a further racheting up toward full scale war with China.
Is now the time for that?
Do we really need that on top of Iraq and Afghanistan?
It seems to me Bush took the minimalist road in giving China's envoy SOMETHING to take home. But it was all mostly words.
38
posted on
12/08/2003 9:20:27 PM PST
by
Quix
(Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
To: dinok
"Can you say APPEASEMENT?"
We saw what it did before. I NEVER worked... EVER. We did not allow it with the Russians and Berlin and we won.
War is not the solution with China but neither is giving in.
39
posted on
12/08/2003 9:44:19 PM PST
by
JSteff
To: dinok
First Iran, then Korea, then...
40
posted on
12/08/2003 9:46:30 PM PST
by
Pan_Yans Wife
("Your joy is your sorrow unmasked." --- GIBRAN)
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