The truth, at last:SADDAM HAD THE WEAPONS!!!!!!

London Telegraph ^ | 12/07/03 | Telegraph.co.UK

[CyberAnt]

They haven't vanished. Israel has said from the beginning that the weapons were trucked into Syria before, during and after the war started.

[WoofDog123]

"Why is it so difficult for you to believe that these weapons existed? After all, the Iraqis used them quite often in the past. "


Of course some weapons existed, presumably during the 1990 war and certainly in the 80's. It also seems likely weapons existed in the 90's. If you believe the bush administration's pre-war selling points, though, tremendous amounts of material should already have been secured, particularly given the number of higher-ranking regime members who have been captured or surrendered.

The iraqis used them some inthe 80's, a fact which bothered the US very little at the time. Despite the delusions of some Bushbots here, Realpolitik IS the rule, not the exception. It is fine with me as well if they wanna gas iran. The bush-1 team only brought it up when iraq went and invaded kuwait, which was not on the acceptable war-crime list.

"Or are you the longest sleeper troll here?"

I guess these days when a 4-year FR member asks 'they have been in-country 9 months, by any chance have ANY NBC WEAPONS been found?' he is obviously a secret troll planted years in advance to ask sneaky trick questions, as compared to an intelligent member of FR, who clearly sees through all these evidence-based word games. Bush said it was there, etc., so who cares if they haven't found it? Why should they even look for it, since we know it was there?

[meenie]

The colonel says the same thing the neocons claimed before the war. There haven't been any found. Is the colonel of an Iraqi army more trustworthy than our own mistaken officials? If he knows where the weapons are located, he should be the best source to show our forces in Iraq where they are located.

By the way, this colonel is not the first Iraqi who claimed to know there were WMD's in Iraq. Chalabai knew they were there and went to Iraq as an aide to the provisional authority and weapons have not been found. The significance of not finding WMD's continues to worry many officials because it is still the primary reason for going into Iraq.

[VeniVidiVici]

The iraqis used them some inthe 80's, a fact which bothered the US very little at the time

And why do you think this was so?

[woofie]

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[thesummerwind]

I just heard on FoxNews that the informant said no one will come forward until they know Saddam is dead or under control.

[WoofDog123]

"And why do you think this was so?"

Can you read the next two sentences in the paragraph you quoted from? It may answer your question. "As well' is the key phrase.

"The iraqis used them some inthe 80's, a fact which bothered the US very little at the time. Despite the delusions of some Bushbots here, Realpolitik IS the rule, not the exception. It is fine with me as well if they wanna gas iran."

[WoofDog123]

"I just heard on FoxNews that the informant said no one will come forward until they know Saddam is dead or under control."

I may be cynical, but this is too convenient. The US is in a position to literally do just about anything for anyone who shows them some NBC weapons, and would certainly be willing to deal given the problems lack of this evidence is causing the governments who participated in the invasion domestically.

[WoofDog123]

"Contrary to the claims of those who said it was "inconceivable" that religious fanatics from al-Qaeda could ever make common cause with Saddam and his supporters, precisely that has happened since the Americans liberated Iraq from his grip"

My take on this is that when you radically alter circumstances (i.e. invade and despose the dictatorship of of the the parties above), common cause can be found where never it would have before. I don't know if AQ had a working relationship with SH before, or if there was tremendous mutual distrust, etc., but it isn't a leap of the imagination to find, once you are conquered, that your old enemy is a useful co-belligerent.

[WoofDog123]

"The significance of not finding WMD's continues to worry many officials because it is still the primary reason for going into Iraq."

Agreed, and while obviously the administration over-built the NBC threat to sell the invasion, they almost certainly expected to find enough stuff to justify themselves, and I cannot imagine them going in knowing/expecting they would find NOTHING. It may end Blair's career as PM (lack of a viable opposition party in GB has helped him a lot), and will NOT help bush in '04 either.

[bootless]

IMMENSE bump!

[bootless]

IMMENSE bump!

[VeniVidiVici]

Can you read the next two sentences in the paragraph you quoted from? It may answer your question. "As well' is the key phrase.

I did. I was trying to get a little more insight into your "Realpolitik" statement and why it was that nobody really seemed to care that he was launching chem weapons against another country.

So many forget the world was a different place 15 years ago, where "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" was the norm as two spheres of influence battled it out.

Hussein was an egotistical maniac. After he lost face (and his ass) after GW I, it takes no great leap of the imagination to see him setting up terrorist training camps and working with AQ - and others - to undermine our position in the ME and cause us harm. It was his revenge.

Just as it takes no great leap of the imagination that he had chem weapons all along. He had no reason to quit work on them. Nor did he have a reason to cease work on nuclear and biological weapons. He still had his country and his wealth while leading the UN around by the nose all during the '90s.

And, in all honesty, it doesn't really matter if we find any remenents or not. The cry will be that we planted anything we find so who cares?

[GretchenEE]

He added that Saddam had hidden huge stocks of arms, including his chemical and biological munitions, at secret sites across Iraq.

Someone has to say it.

Duh.

[WoofDog123]

"I did. I was trying to get a little more insight into your "Realpolitik" statement and why it was that nobody really seemed to care that he was launching chem weapons against another country. "

I am sorry for my sarcasm in my reply; your point wasn't clear from your previous post.

I assume the iraq/iran war was at a point when nukes were still aways away for them (at this point were they already with a destroyed reactor?), and presumably the USSR was still tightly controlling its bioweapon labs, and the best a saddam could do was nerve gases, which, used against iran, the sworn hater of the USA, aren't such a big deal in the WMD scheme of things in 198x.

"So many forget the world was a different place 15 years ago, where "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" was the norm as two spheres of influence battled it out. "

agreed, and iran was certainly as much an enemy as a country can get.

"Hussein was an egotistical maniac. After he lost face (and his ass) after GW I, it takes no great leap of the imagination to see him setting up terrorist training camps and working with AQ - and others - to undermine our position in the ME and cause us harm. It was his revenge. "

I don't have enough real info about this to say much; I don't know how much to believe the '45-minutes' bush admin. The fact Blair stood by the US, and had his on inteligence folks 'sex up' their info as well, says the anglo-american intelligence community really expected to find NBC items in iraq.

"Just as it takes no great leap of the imagination that he had chem weapons all along. He had no reason to quit work on them. Nor did he have a reason to cease work on nuclear and biological weapons. He still had his country and his wealth while leading the UN around by the nose all during the '90s. "

It is a mystery. It would make a lot more sense if a large quantity of the various things GWB said he had in quantity were to be produced. As you note, it has been so long now that there would be crys of fraud inthe evidence.

On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that the US has some large percentage ofthe iraqi leadership in custody, meaning they can be debriefed, sodium penatholed, etc, and we haven't produced any iraqi NBC weapons which the invading governments need for domestic political reasons.

"And, in all honesty, it doesn't really matter if we find any remenents or not. The cry will be that we planted anything we find so who cares?"

GWB may be re-elected, but failure to produce in a timely fashion the items he claimed SH had in tremendous quantity means UK and AUS will be much less likely to help in the next Middle east invasion he launches. Additionally, it is possible that a large % of the US pollable public will not believe him.

[Joe_October]

.... I may be cynical, but this is too convenient. The US is in a position to literally do just about anything for anyone who shows them some NBC weapons....

So, you would put your neck out. The US press wouldn't report it. Dean or Hillary are elected. The US pulls out. You die.

The Left knows that being cagey helps their friends, the terrorists. It won't end until we make the rats say, we won't leave until it is done. Until we say, we will spend it all and give every American life if necessary. We will reduce the Middle East into molten slag if necessary. But, we will win. Everyone say Amen. That rats can't accept that.

Funny thing is that it would be over tomorrow if they did. And no one else would have to die. But, that was never their intention.

[hopespringseternal]

GWB may be re-elected, but failure to produce in a timely fashion the items he claimed SH had in tremendous quantity

First of all, the pertinent statement was that we could not wait until the threat was imminent. Meaning we didn't know what he had, but had no faith in inspections to ever find it if he did have it. Under that statement, not finding anything is well within the bounds of an acceptable outcome because you made Hussein's confounding of the inspections to find WMD the issue, not the WMD. So GWB never made the claim of mass quantities of WMD as the reason for going in.

Secondly, given his prior possession and use of WMD and continued frustration of inspections, only a fool would assume that he neither had none nor wished to obtain them.

In short, you are using network news propaganda that simply does not fit reality.

[WoofDog123]

"In short, you are using network news propaganda that simply does not fit reality."

Reality is there is no NBC weapon recovery to date.

[hopespringseternal]

Reality is there is no NBC weapon recovery to date.

Are you braindead too, troll? Try reading my post before you respond to it.

[nutmeg]

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