Clark Post During Waco Gets New Attention

based on your erroneous understanding of the National Guard.

I do not have an erroneous understanding the national guard. You have offered an inadequate ass-covering legalism to suggest why I shouldn't regard tanks used to murder babies as army tanks. They looked like army tanks, they behaved like army tanks, for the purposes of ascertaining moral blaim, They were army tanks (who do you think orders these things built--the Red Cross?)--face up to it, and stop trying to hide behind BS, unconstitutional laws that try to pretend the feds don't have ultimate control over the disposal of those tanks. If the feds hadn't wanted those tanks there, and had chosen to federalize them, and order them off, there was no way on earth for texas to LEGALLY intervene and keep them there. True or false?

The preposterous, constitution-skirting legal distinction between the guard and the army is a very feeble reed to hang a moral defense on.

Interesting that you refer to following the law as a "get out of jail free card signed by the Attorney General, or the congress." Isn't that the way its supposed to be--break the law and go to jail, follow the law and stay out of jail?

So...if you receive legal orders from the gestapo to identify all the jews in your neighborhood, are you going to do it?

Since the wonderful author of this piece makes numerous value judgements and does not address any facts, I'll address the single "fact" he does mention.

The only factual information he presents is the following (which I suppose is the entirety of the "empirical data" he appears to be so enamored with).

"And the flashes recorded on FLIR that are said to be the gunshots killing those allegedly trying to escape do not actually resemble real gunshots. Instead, the long durations of the flashes resemble thermal reflections."

So, what exactly is the duration of the flashes seen on the FLIR video?

And that Waco turned out the way it did could not be foreseen.

Right. Playing with pyrotechnic gas, tanks, armed helicopters and flashbangs in a building with 2 dozen kids cowering in the basement couldn't possibly end in disaster, could it?

Don, your analogy of giving the car keys to a drunk is not appropriate to this situation.

Very well, let's alter the analogy. The mother, who also was drunk, but not at a blood-level legally considered impaired, listened to her son's request to use them, but forgot to answer, and dropped the car keys in the customary drawer, and went to bed in a drunken stupor. Hence, by the laws of her state, she is not legally responsible for her son's accident. Does she have any moral responsibility?

Equating providing support to the BATF & FBI with arming gang-bangers in the Bronx is way too far-fetched

Oh, in what particular? I stipulated it was a legal request, did I not? Did the gangbangers in my analogy damage more, or fewer innocents than the BATF? Did the gangbangers torque the legal system to cover their acts more, or less than the door-squirreling, warrant-caging, bulldozer-wielding BATF?

I put a lot of years in the Army and I think it was grossly unwarranted on your part to describe largely decent and honorable men belonging to one of the great organizations of our country as "gangsters". So I fired back. I won't do it again.

I'll try to put a muzzle on the bombast. I can get pretty heated about this. I apologize for the blanket insult. Since you asked, I have an Honerable from the Air Force, for a short-term enlistment during Viet Nam, and do not bear US military personnel, individually, any ill-will, however much disdane I may have for the current legalistic camoflage the congress has provided for the army and guard for their unconstitutional present-day evolutions.

"Clark's totally innocent in this regardless of what anybody thinks about him," says Taylor, Clark's former commander

Now that's odd. Innocent of what? The Justice Dept.'s Special Prosecutor declared that nobody in the government had done anything wrong. Indeed, no one was prosecuted. So why the need to proclaim Wes's "innocence"?

Clark's totally innocent

I agree, that statement, especailly coming from one so highly placed in the Government, obviously implies guilt at the federal level. I think Gen. Taylor is an idiot for publically defending Wesely Clark over the Waco masacre but we all know where the buck ought to stop when it comes to the illegalities of Clinton presidency?

According to this link, Carlos Ghigliotti died of a heart attack. Can anybody here confirm this?

http://www.ntskeptics.org/2002/2002february/february2002.htm

I am not "you guys," am not blinded by anything, let alone by the rage you project into this discussion and with which you attack, assault and impugn the character of those who persist with the Truth in the face of your Goebbellsian efforts to suppress it.

"Mike McNutty?" Who or what is a Mike McNutty? Never heard of it. Or of him.

Disagreement with your "DemocRATic" potty line does not constitute "rage" and -- contrary to the line they fed you at potty hq -- is an indicator only of one's occupancy of the intellectual, moral and legal high ground on this issue.

Further, not only am I singularly unimpressed by your pathetic and puny attempts to arrange the appearance of "evidence" in support of your predetermination in this matter and of the guilty parties obsessive need to obfuscate and to demean and to demonize the victims of their mass murders, I am more than ever convinced of the soundness of the overwhelming prima facie evidence to support the feral gummint's in general and the cli'toon "administration's" specific responsibility and guilt for the deaths of every one of the victims of the Waco atrocities.

And, never for a moment forgetting -- by what I saw with my own Mark One Eyeball.

Here's some food for you, for thought. Although, judging by this thread's evidence, that might be a new experience for you.

QUOTE:

Delta Force Murdered Branch Davidians

Mike Blair

It's Official says The SPOTLIGHT -- With Help From The British SAS

An elite U. S. Army military unit under the direct command of the office of the president was responsible for the massacre of 80-100 or so Branch Davidian men, women and dozens of children after a 5I day siege by the federal government of their home and church and school at Waco, Texas in 1993.

Orders were passed on from his spouse to the top secret Combat Applications Group of Fort Bragg, N.C., [Known as the Delta Force] by one William Jefferson Blythe [AKA Clinton] because the seemingly endless stand off between the FBI and the besiged residents of the home, church and school had become what Mrs Clinton called "an embarrassment to his 'administration,'" according to a former Army Special Forces member. Totally involved in the final days of decision making that, by murdering the beseiged, "brought closure to the siege" was Mrs Clinton, currently the US media poster girl as a result of her venture into Senate politics as the Illinois/Arkansas carpet bagger from New York.

Reports have been received by The SPOTLIGHT that Gene Cullen, a former CIA agent, has asked a Senate committee for "protection" in return for his testimony regarding Delta Force activity at Waco. Cullen is requesting "protection" according to reports, because he has been threatened with prosecution for violating national security if he talks.

WHlTE HOUSE BRIEFED

The recent release of documents through the Freedom of Information Act [FOIA] reveals that Army officials, and in particular those from Delta Force, met with White House and Justice Department officials, including Attorney General Janet Reno and her then second-in-command and Mrs Clinton's former law partner, Webster Hubbel, to discuss a resolution to the Waco standoff.

Evidence collected by The SPOTLIGHT, however, reveals that Delta Force played far more than an advisory role in ending the government's siege. Delta Force, in fact, had a direct, operational role in the attack on the Branch Davidian compound and caused the holocaust that took the lives of 80-100 residents of the religious community, including dozens of women and children.

Steve Barry, a retired long-time member of Army Special Forces and a top expert in the field of military special operations, said a team of about 10 members of Delta Force carried out the Waco massacre.

Barry's military career included training with Delta Force. According to him, "two bricks," or four man teams, carried out the actual attack.

In recently released FBI infrared video tapes of the crucial minutes of the April 19 assault on Adventist Branch Davidian, Mr Koresh's, home and church and school, fully-automatic gunfire is seen being directed into an area of the home, church and school, which Mr Koresh and his terrified family, parishioners and students and their dozens of children were attempting to use to escape from the flames, fanned by high winds, which were consuming the wooden buildings.

Barry told The SPOTLIGHT that there was a team of "as many as 10" Delta Force troopers at Waco, including, as he described them, "a commander, a sergeant major, two or three communications guys, two or three intel [Intelligence] guys, a medic and two or three operational guys." He said assigned to them, supposedly in an advisory capacity, were members of the British SAS, [Special Air Service] an elite British special operations force. The Delta Force, Barry explained, shared a Tactical Operations Center [TOC] at Waco with an FBI Hostage Rescue Team [HRT] force. Since the 1993 Waco atrocities, the American people have been led to believe that the IRT force alone conducted the assault on the compound.

Barry said the Delta Force receives its orders from what is known as the National Command Authority, which then included Clinton, Secretary of State Warren Christopher, Secretary of Defence Les Aspin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; Army General Colin Powell -- and Mrs Clinton.

The ultimate decision to send Delta Force into action rests with the president, Barry said, it can be no other way.

FAMILIAR FACE

Adding to the controversy, it has leeen confirmed that Lon Horiuchi was in charge of a "sniper post" where the evidence details that Texas Rangers recovered spent .223 and .308 shell casings.

Horiuchi was the FBI killer who feloniously fatally shot the wife of Randy Weaver, while also-unlawfully wounding both Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris, during the murderous federal seige at Ruby Ridge in Idaho.

The recovered shell casings would be consistent with government-issued sniper rifles. Horiuchi "has denied" that he or any members of his "team" fired any shots at Waco.

The retired special operations expert said that during the siege at Waco, Mrs Clinton set up and operated what she called a "a crises center" at the White House, put together "on her own initiative." Interfering with her was another former member of the Little Rock law firm for and from which she had been the link to the governors office, White House Deputy Council Vincent M Foster Jr.

Foster was later found dead under mysterious circumstances in a Virginia park, across the river from the District of Columbia.

According to Barry, it was from this extra-governmental "crises center" that slanderous, defamitory and demonizing allegations first went out that there was "child abuse" by adult members of the religious community under attack at Waco -- including by the community's leader, the Reverend David Koresh, at his Waco home, church and school.

This revelation about the part Foster played in the Waco tragedy has been confirmed by Mike McNulty, the producer of a documentary film on the siege. McNulty quoted Fosters widow, Lisa, who said that the White House attorney's depression at the time of his death "was fueled by Mr Foster's horror at the carnage at Waco for which Mrs Clinton's unlawful and extra-governmental "crises center" had given the orders."

McNulty also said that Forster was preparing a Waco report when he died. This has been confirmed by veteran British journalist, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard.

In his book the Secret Life of Bill Clinton. Pritchard wrote:

The Branch Davidian siege was clearly on Fosters mind. He was "drafting a letter involving Waco" on the day of his death, surely a point of some significance. He kept a Waco file in the locked cabinet that was off limits to everybody, including his secretary. His widow mentions Waco twice in her statement to the FBI. Toward the end of his life, Foster had no sense of joy or elation at work. The slaughter of the Branch Davidians near Waco, Texas, was also causing him a great deal of stress. Lisa Foster believes that he was horrified when the Branch Davidian complex was burned.

"Crises center" member, Mr Foster, believed that "everything was [His] fault."

When asked about how the Delta Force action jibes with the Posse Comitatus Act, which outlaws the use of Army forces to enforce civilian law, Barry said: "That's just it. It doesn't jibe with Posse Comitatus."

A violation of Posse Comitatus is indeed "a high crime or misdemeanor" -- an impeachable felony offence.

And if Clinton's reasons for ordering the Delta Force attack at Waco are murky, the reasons for directing a cover-up are obviously not. Posse Comitatus clearly states that:

"Whoever... willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a Posse Comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned for not more than two years."

Extracted from The SPOTLIGHT, 1O,3O,99

END QUOTE.

Guess that's why you're still busily wiping your Arkansas abberrations' arses, eh Jim?

Surprise! Surprise! After all of these years.

Fascists are still attracting brown-shirted brown noses.

To their no shame game.

"b) the feds colluded to hide their guilt in the intentional murder of those children. "

There is no doubt. The crooked Congressional Hearings were shocking also.

When asked about how the Delta Force action jibes with the Posse Comitatus Act, which outlaws the use of Army forces to enforce civilian law, Barry said: "That's just it. It doesn't jibe with Posse Comitatus."

That may or may not be the case here, but I submit that the Clinton's are so calculating in their actions that Posse Comitatus was foremost in their minds during this whole Waco event. If Barry's testamonial is an accurate depiction of what actually happened and who actually issued orders to use the Delta Force at Waco it was most likely calculated to create gray matter thus "plausable deniability" for Bill Clinton. I find it difficult to logically eliminate the involvement of the Army National Guard equipment from the Posse Comitatus act when the Army pays 100% of the bill to support its operations. I strongly believe if the Posse Comitatus issue was ferreted out in a court room that Clinton would lose this one. But, for some reason I just can't forget those FBI files, (calculated). I really appreciate your post, very enlightening.

You, sir are a liar.

I reviewed the footage this morning. I watched tanks, modified to inject gas but most definately tanks, punch holes in the walls and then run through the rear of the building and enter the building.

Tanks were used. A tank entered the building in the rear area.

You are a liar.

BTTT!!!

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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1030336/posts
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