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ARTILLERY: Rules of Engagement Protect Iraqi Mortars
StrategyPage.com ^
| November 26, 2003
Posted on 11/26/2003 4:14:38 AM PST by Cannoneer No. 4
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
So the Iraqi teams fire a few shells, then take their mortar apart and move away. This process takes a minute or so.They're doing some things right. Shooting and scooting is something an American mortar section would do as well- particularly against the Soviets who had good counter battery systems.
What they're lacking is a good FDC and perhaps some good crew training. The most effective method of employing a mortar (supposedly) is the direct lay. It's as simple as it gets. You lay your gun in directly on the target using the gun's sight to look directly at the target. You estimate the range as best you can, set your charge and elevation accordingly and drop a round. You see where the round lands, adjust the sight to that point and then T and E the gun system back to the target- which should bring your round on line. You make your range adjustment and that next round should land very close to the target.
A skilled mortar crew (without an FDC) should be able to put at least the third round on the target and the second round very close. This could be done in a matter of a couple of minutes- the longest bit being the time of flight for the round. But let's say the time of flight is about 30 seconds (for a good round number) and we'll give the gun crew twenty seconds to make adjustments (which is a piece of cake for a good gunner). You fire your first round, 50 seconds later, you should be dropping your second adjusted round. If you care to stick around another 50 seconds you can drop a third and even more accurate round- you wouldn't have to wait to see where that one lands. So we're talking two minutes here. You take that mortar out of action in a matter of seconds and you're hauling a$$ hoping the Americans haven't fired off a shot yet- maybe three, three and half minutes. But this is keeping in mind you have to get well out of the area. An artillery round has a nice little kill radius and after three successive shots that counter battery would have you pegged pretty good.
If it were my crew, I'd hang around long enough to adjust one round but I'd fire off multiple rounds with that data- ie my second shot would be my fire for effect. You could get some reasonable accuracy and get a few rounds on that spot as well very quickly while keeping your survivability to a calculated risk that would be acceptable vs the enhanced likelihood of inflicting casualties.
Of course, for direct lay the gunner needs a clear line of sight to the target. Failing that, they need a good FDC and FO. They'd be much better off keeping their powder dry until they got their sh!t together than exposing themselves to this willy nilly round lobbing. A mortar crew can be drilled to a very high standard without ever firing a shot. They can be drilled inside a house even. The only thing different from a real fire mission is actually dropping that round down the tube. A good FDC can be drilled in like fashion.
These guys are just sloppy. If they cared enough to be more effective, they could be. It seems to me like a jihadi mortar crew is more a way for them to "count coup" and do something manly (that is less dangerous than a direct attack) than anything else.
To: Cannoneer No. 4
We should put a new perspective on the NIMBY principle
22
posted on
11/26/2003 7:13:17 AM PST
by
grumple
(I'm too old to worry about whether or not I'm a pain in your ass...)
To: Cannoneer No. 4
The Japanese, North Koreans/ Red Chinese, and Viet Cong all tried variations on this with mortars, rockets, small arms fire, and aerial bombardment. The idea was not so much to cause material damage as to inflict constant harassment and annoyance.
To: optimistically_conservative; Cannoneer No. 4
"The conclusion then is that they are satisfied with the media attention they get by just dropping a few close to their target and playing the stats that once in a great while they might get lucky." It's working for them. The slimy American media is a fifth column for these pukes.
24
posted on
11/26/2003 7:26:15 AM PST
by
sauropod
("Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt")
To: fourdeuce82d
(fancy pants FDC types with their Gamma Goats and dry working conditions grumle grumble)Smile when you say that. :)
At least we sold ice-cold pop and provided free icewater from the back of our M-577 in the summer.
While other tricks should be tried, too, announce that some enemy mortar attacks will be answered by old-time counterbattery fire. Let the locals know that allowing attacks in their neighborhood is not risk-free for them.
25
posted on
11/26/2003 7:42:22 AM PST
by
300winmag
(Photon Micro-lights: the next best thing to the Phial of Galadriel)
To: Cannoneer No. 4; archy; I got the rope; 300winmag; cavtrooper21
Fire Mission!
26
posted on
11/26/2003 7:57:32 AM PST
by
Darksheare
(Even as we speak, my 100,000 killer wombat army marches forth)
To: Prodigal Son
They're doing some things right. Shooting and scooting is something an American mortar section would do as well- particularly against the Soviets who had good counter battery systems. Not if they're in Strykers. They've got to set up and break down outside the vehicles with every mission. IMHO, the Stryker 120mm mortar version that can'r be fired from the vehicle is the most questionable weak reed of the bunch.
-archy-.-
27
posted on
11/26/2003 8:19:54 AM PST
by
archy
(Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
To: archy
Yeah, I think you ran that one by me a while back (or it might've been someone else). I didn't think that sounded too clever myself.
To: Prodigal Son
29
posted on
11/26/2003 10:08:13 AM PST
by
Cannoneer No. 4
(Old soldiers never die. They just go to the commissary parking lot and regroup.)
To: Cannoneer No. 4
The safest place to stand is on a target. The Iraqis will only hit something out of luck, not skill. It's just harrassment.
30
posted on
11/26/2003 10:32:58 AM PST
by
Eagle Eye
(I'm a RINO. I'm far too conservative to be a real Republican.)
To: archy; Matthew James; Eagle Eye; SLB; Squantos; Cannoneer No. 4
Incoming Ping!
31
posted on
11/26/2003 10:36:06 AM PST
by
Travis McGee
(----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
To: Cannoneer No. 4
!!!.
They're a 105mm unit.. so they'd have to be either a 102, or a 119 unit.
And we don't have very many 102 units anymore, last I knew they were all National Guard units.
If the Mad Mortarman should get within range and be out in the open..
He's toast.
32
posted on
11/26/2003 10:39:28 AM PST
by
Darksheare
(Even as we speak, my 100,000 killer wombat army marches forth)
To: Darksheare
If the Mad Mortarman should get within range and be out in the open..
He's toast. Care to bet on the chance he's set up in the back of a little Toyota or Nissan ½-ton mini-pickup. Probably with a real handy tarp to toss over the *tools* he's got in thevback bed?
33
posted on
11/26/2003 10:47:59 AM PST
by
archy
(Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
To: Darksheare
![](http://www.173abnbde.setaf.army.mil/Photos%20for%20Web%20Page/Crest/Brigad2.gif)
D/319th AFAR
34
posted on
11/26/2003 10:48:04 AM PST
by
Cannoneer No. 4
(Brave Rifles! Veterans! You have been baptised in fire and blood and come out steel)
To: archy
Probably.
That would also account for the accuracy trouble he's had.
If he's firing from a pickup truck, and the Afghanis did such to Russia IIRC, then he'll need luck to hit stuff.
Should make it somewhat easier to find him though.
A JStars nearby could see if there was a vehicle moving away from the datum point and guide others to it.
There was a bit of an experiment once about having a datalink from a JStars to help guide artillery strikes.
(Or so it was rumored)
Don't know if anythig came from it, or if it was an actual thing in the works.
Alotta rumors make the rounds.
35
posted on
11/26/2003 10:53:43 AM PST
by
Darksheare
(Even as we speak, my 100,000 killer wombat army marches forth)
To: Eagle Eye
Two South Dakota National Guard troops injured in IraqThe attack happened at noon Tuesday when a mortar exploded inside a National Guard compound at Camp Warhorse north of Baghdad.
Both are members of the 200th Engineer Company, which is based in Pierre.
Does the name John Sedgewick mean anything to you?
Happy Thanksgiving, and don't walk under anything that goes boom.
36
posted on
11/26/2003 10:57:28 AM PST
by
Cannoneer No. 4
(Brave Rifles! Veterans! You have been baptised in fire and blood and come out steel)
To: Cannoneer No. 4
That's an M119A1 alright.
That box next to the wheel is the sightbox for the pantel, which the gunner is next to there in pic.
They're also set up in a firebase style position, the guns in a diamond pattern.
Cripes that bring back memories of being at Fort Drum with our moat.. err. .trench.
(Ft Drum has areas that act like mud sponges. We dug in, and had a frog filled moat instead of a trench.)
Note the handrail on the lower right hand corner of image that the one soldier, probably the #1 man, is sitting on.
Looks like they're setting up and looking at the aiming circle.
37
posted on
11/26/2003 10:57:55 AM PST
by
Darksheare
(Even as we speak, my 100,000 killer wombat army marches forth)
To: fourdeuce82d; Old Sarge
Send Darkesheare a freepmail -- Suject: FAPL ON
You have been drafted into the Free Republic Field Artillery (and mortar) Ping List
38
posted on
11/26/2003 11:07:11 AM PST
by
Cannoneer No. 4
(Brave Rifles! Veterans! You have been baptised in fire and blood and come out steel)
To: Darksheare
Which number pulls the string that makes it go boom?
39
posted on
11/26/2003 11:09:01 AM PST
by
Cannoneer No. 4
(Brave Rifles! Veterans! You have been baptised in fire and blood and come out steel)
To: Cannoneer No. 4
A lucky shot for them. Most don't hit anything. We've got ND guard here, not SD.
A guy I know in a nearby camp spends an hour or two a day in the bunker. He doesn't trust them to stay unlucky.
They've been realy quiet here over the last month, just a few, and only one has been close by.
40
posted on
11/26/2003 11:09:29 AM PST
by
Eagle Eye
(I'm a RINO. I'm far too conservative to be a real Republican.)
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