Army Seeks Short-Term Payoff From Future Combat Systems

National Defense Magazine ^ | December 2003 | Sandra I. Erwin

[Chief_Joe]

Right now 4000 up armored humvees are immediately needed in Iraq. The army cannot produce 3500 of them in the next 18 months. This is ridiculous ...This is a clear indication to me that no effort has been made to put uparmored humvee production into a war production modality.

It's called JIT (Just In Time) planning or, more appropriately, last minute planning. The primary objective of this approach is to save money -not to build tactical or strategic fighting instruments. The best part you've yet to hear is that we're dependent on "other" countries to build or furnish some of the critical components we need to do this.

[sauropod]

"Last September, American weapons manufacturer United Defense Industries demonstrated a new, cheaper and lighter self-propelled artillery piece to replace the cancelled Crusader system."

155mm? Also, what about ROF and tube heating issues? I know about the IMC gun. Does this new concept have a cooling system for the barrel?

[sauropod]

Top speed would be an issue for slugging around a 70-ton vehicle with a diesel.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Diesel Tank Engines

[sauropod]

"The best part you've yet to hear is that we're dependent on "other" countries to build or furnish some of the critical components we need to do this."

Bingo! Give this guy a donut.

DoD is not serious about new land combat weapon systems. They haven't been for some time.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

A Future Abrams Tank

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Challenger 2 is diesel.

Over how much of the earth's surface can you really go 50 mph in a Main Battle Tank with out beating the crew to death like dried peas in a gourd?

I saw an M1 hit a dug in hull down position cross ways at high speed once. The rapid deceleration kept the plastic surgeons and dentists busy for awhile. Didn't hurt the tank much.

[jriemer]

The things that caught my eye was the autoloader and the electric drive for something that large. The autoloader reduces the size of the crew, turret and hull. The electric drive could possibly simplify the drivetrain. The juice put out by engine / generator is non-trivial to move a tank of any size.

If it's robust, you can slap this type of drive train into any vechile so there's commonality between trucks, jeeps (really fast ones) and tanks. The down side could be EMP protection but someone's taking a gamble that the T-guys WMD don't include that in the bag of tricks...

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Non-Line-of-Sight Cannon (NLOS-C)

Maybe it will have a big water jacket like a Vickers machine gun.

United Defense Cannon Demonstrator Fires 6 Rounds Per Minute

[blanknoone]

Those prices are to modify a M998...the army buys a regular humvee, strips out its engine, transmission and suspension, then O'Gara replaces it all.

Having worked with M1114 in Bosnia and worked at the Directorate of Force Development for the Armor Center (the proponent of this program) I can firmly say that it is a foolish project.

The Scandanvians had the right idea with a SISU, the basically have a COTS bus engine, transmission and suspension and build an armor frame to make a wheeled APC...which is what the Army really needs and is trying to turn the humvee into. By the way, the 6X6 SISU, which has an armored machine gun turret has much more space, capacity and versatility, actually costs less than M1114 both to buy and maintain.

If we want a cheap wheeled APC, we ought to build one, not try to turn the Humvee into one.

[blanknoone]

Is this what used to be AGS? Yes

No it is not...the AGS was to be a light airmobile supplement to the Abrams fleet, with the same general and already in service. The FCS is supposed to be the replacement to the Abrams, and using next generation technology entering service in next decade. (Originally, it was supposed to be much further out, it keeps creeping closer)

[Tailback]

I don't know if I'm on the Treadhead list, if not could you put me on? Thanks.

[Dark Wing]

ping

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Is this machine an improvement over the Stryker?

[sauropod]

Isn't this part of the New Army Doctrine? Fast and lethal?

Am familiar with the Challenger 2 engine. Saw a couple of CV12s on the test stand.

BTW, the selection of that engine for Crusader was certainly political.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Thunderbolt is United Defense's up-gunned 120mm version of their M8 Buford Armored Gun System.

[Ranger]

Here are some stats on the Uparmored Humvee deficiencies.

There are 8500 soft humvees in Iraq not. Less than 1700 armored humvees have ever been produced. The army believes it is deficient by 3500-4000 armored humvees in Iraq. Less than 3500 armored humvees will be produced between now and June 2005.

A very high proportion of our ground casualties are coming from IEM, RPG and small arms fire placed on trailing vehicles in convoy. Most casualties seem to be occurring in unarmored humvees.

Production rates remain suboptimal and even with current plant expansion planned, will not reach more than 200 per month by year-end. This is a ridiculous situation and I'm asking any freepers that have some ideas on this to help forward them to me as I am very active with congress on this matter. At the same time realize that 50,000 commercial grade hummers will be produced by GM along next year and those are subsidized with a small business tax deduction by $100K. Thus your local dentist gets a yellow hummer but your boy in Iraq rides around in essentially an open bed pickup taking RPG, machinegun and IED hits.

Anyone that has ideas or a means of resolving this issue, please contact me.

[sauropod]

My understanding of the FCS is that it is a family of vehicles a la "common chassis", not just a replacement for the Abrams.

[Ranger]

There are 8500 soft humvees in Iraq not

Should read 8500 soft humvees are in Iraq now.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

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