It's Here -- Credit Bubble Bulletin, by Doug Noland

PrudentBear.com ^ | 11/21/03 | Doug Noland

[sourcery]

Whom the gods would destroy, they first infect with mad cow disease.

[Jim Robinson]

Sorry, guess we'll have to add another topic over here called "more leftist clap trap" or some such and then maybe the reclassification will make more sense.

[Starwind]

Sorry, guess we'll have to add another topic over here called "more leftist clap trap" or some such and then maybe the reclassification will make more sense.

You're free to call it what it you will and impose the rules. But that doesn't make it true.

What about this article, author or website makes it "more leftist clap trap"? I presume you are serious.

[Always Right]

Why is this business/economy thread in the FR chat forum?

LOL, let me give you one clue

[Jim Robinson]

Gut feel.

[Jim Robinson]

I had a long answer all typed out, but lost it in fact and spell checking. Guess I can just summarize. Instinct.

[Starwind]

Gut feel.

Well that was honest. I didn't think you actually had any facts from the article.

[Always Right]

If you really need an answer is is this kind of doom and gloom analysis:

Unfettered liquidity and Credit creation have worked miracles, but Bubbles have grown so large there’s no way out short of a great deal of pain. Pain is no option.

There is nothing conservative about constantly talking about how this or that is going cause the economy to collasp. No matter what the economic news is, it is always spun as doom and gloom. Without the Tom Daschle spin, there is some newsworthy info in some of these posts.

[Starwind]

There is nothing conservative about constantly talking about how this or that is going cause the economy to collasp.

There is everything conservative in discussing what ailes the economy, including bubbles in real estate, debt, credit, and the same P/E ratios as existed during the stock market bubble of 2000.

You obviously recognize the 'newsworthy info' in the articles, but you just don't like hearing opinions that don't agree with your kneejerk analysis.

Someone recently said "If you only read people who think like you, you will soon find you do not do much thinking".

That is where you are at Always Right. Not doing much thinking because you only read what you're going to agree with. Labeling anything you don't like or understand as 'doom & gloom' - and most of what is posted goes over your head.

Otherwise, I'm sure you'd post an intelligent response if in fact you had one. Fortunately for you, they make video cassette covers with pretty pictures you can manage.

The rest you wish to censure. But there's nothing conservative in that either.

[sourcery]

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

[OwenKellogg]

Jim,

Living on an island in the western Pacific (Okinawa), I come to your fine establishment as the best source for news and commentary (and sometimes humor).

Freepers arete, Starwind, and others post some interesting business and economics articles that I enjoy. Yes, some articles are not mainstream thought, but that does not invalidate the content. The Prudent Bear is a source that I find credible and interesting, though I don't always agree with their commentary. I would not consider it to be unworthy of the news forum, but think it is something that should be read and vetted in an educated manner.

On the other hand, news and commentary from CNBC was regularly posted here during the NASDAQ bubble as a credible source. History has discredited them as mere cheerleaders to a bubble, but it was important to read and discuss on FR as a significant political event.

This current article has already spawned some emotional and uneducated comments from those who disagree with it. Having taught college economics, I can say that those emotional and uneducated comments are products of an education system that teaches to the lowest common denominator and accepts Keynesianism as a hallowed answer to our economic problems. The responses from folks like these are no indication that this should be in chat.

The Prudent Bear folks like your idea of limited government. They just focus on the economic aspects of government gone wrong.

I ask you to reconsider.

Regards,
OwenKellogg

[Always Right]

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

I know, it is amazing how these experts did not see the 7.2% growth coming, and when things don't turn out that they say which happens too frequently, they make excuses.

[arete]

I don't believe that this latest development should come as much of a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention to what now passes as conservatism today. It seems that standards change depending on who is in office and the need for everyone to participate in one minded groupthink. Everyone is now expected to drink the Kool-aid, parrot a party line and pretend that we are not on the road to political and economic fascism. The sense of fear and the almost obsessive need to control or eliminate free and open discussion on the side of the republican loyalists and false consevatives like Jim Rob should provide a wake up call and warning to all of us who still have an honest and genuine concern about our country and our liberties and freedoms.

Richard W.

[Lazamataz]

The sense of fear and the almost obsessive need to control or eliminate free and open discussion on the side of the republican loyalists and false consevatives like Jim Rob

Dude, you bucking for a banning?

[steve50]

It's become the new conservative version of DU the last couple years. When you get tossed try LP Richard. The same opinion manipulation artists are working it but they haven't been able to take over the administration/moderation of the site yet.

Your threads and a couple others are all I bother with the site for anymore. Bet you a beer we're all banned before the 04 cycle hits high gear.

[palmer]

Most people in these threads have not bashed the economy or the 7.2% growth, although some have critiqued the sources of that statistic. But it's obvious to all of us that the market is overpriced and the growth is being used as an excuse for a bubble market. The market in 2000 had nothing to do with growth, just bubble money, and the same is true today.

There's no need to bash or excuse the growth in the economy or new jobs, it is good and welcome. But to justify 30 P/E, the E (which is more or less a fixed percentage of GDP) will have to grow at 8% for 8 years with no increase in P. It is much more likely that P will decrease to 20, or if the dollar really tanks, 10.

[arete]

Dude, you bucking for a banning?

Do you suggest that I drink the kool-aid and sit down and be quiet? One good thing about being a real consevatative is that you don't have to wake up every morning and check with the local block commander to find out which side of the issues you're on for the day. I think the Jim Rob would be one of the first to admit that he changes positions and principles as often as many people change their socks. I'm just pointing out the obvious. Oh, and don't worry -- someday they will come for you too Laz.

Richard W.

[Soren]

Conservatives would do well to remember "it's the economy stupid". I don't see how burying articles that differ from the party line helps the conservative cause. IMO, it helps create a blind spot. There are a cluster of sites that put out a similar bearish view. Almost uniformly, they do not blame Bush for creating the economic problems they see. In general, they hold these problems were created under the Clinton administration and that Bush was dealt a bad hand when it comes to the economy. It is true they criticize Bush's handling of the economy, but it tends to be from a conservative stance. They tend not to criticize the tax cuts, but rather the increases in spending and monetary policy.

Some people come on these threads and point to various economic statistics, like 3Q GDP, to claim that these views are bearish crap, or leftist drivel, and that everything is fine with the economy. The problem, in the view of these sites, is that the forces currently supporting the economy are unsustainable. You could probably run FR on debt for a little while. Run up a couple dozen credit cards and a home equity loan. Everything would look rosy. Buy a new server, buy two new servers. But eventually, you would max out your credit, have a hard time servicing your debt, and it would all come crashing down. This in a nutshell is the problem with the economy. Freepers on these threads don't criticize Bush because we want him to fail. We criticize him because we don't want to see Hillary as president.

[arete]

Your threads and a couple others are all I bother with the site for anymore. Bet you a beer we're all banned before the 04 cycle hits high gear.

Oh well, I guess I'm just not smart enough to serve more than one master at a time. :-)

Richard W.

[Always Right]

Dude, you bucking for a banning?

I wouldn't shed a tear. All these non-sense of bubbles everywhere you look is getting stale.