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M-16 Rifle May Be on Way Out of U.S. Army
AP, Yahoo! ^
| 11-22-03
| Slobodan Lekic
Posted on 11/22/2003 1:50:36 PM PST by Ex-Dem
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To: Euro-American Scum
Bring back the M14! What do you bet HK gets the new Army contract?
When we come up with a design that's produced by several contractors, as Winchester, TRW and H&R did alongside Springfield Armory in the case of the M14, and as Colt, General Motors/ [Hydramatic] and FN International have done with the M16, we'll likely have a real winner again. Single-sourced small arms procurement has got to go.
121
posted on
11/23/2003 2:22:48 AM PST
by
archy
(Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
To: Ex-Dem
Wow, and they complained that the M-16 looked like a toy gun...
Does indeed look like a smoother, sleeker version of the HK G36. Oh, but I've got lots of questions for you.
What material is it made out of?
Polymer and steel for the most part. I'm told it's a modified Zytel 6, with a composite carbon/graphite/boron content, similar to the stuff space shuttle tiles are made of. I'll reserve judgement on that until I've tried it.
Some sort of plastic composite?
Yep. also like the new Israeli Tavor. But note that as the Russian *Grozny* proves, stamped sheet metal is still a viable choice.
Does it take a grenade launcher?
Oh yes. It's meant to work with the Alliant OICW 20mm round. And it's a good bet an intirm 40mm version can be adapted; either the M203 as adapted to the M4 carbine; or possibly the new 40mm unit fitted to some British L85A2 rifles.
They aren't going to keep that ridiculous color scheme, are they?
What, you don't like the DeWalt Power Tools commemoritive version? The nice thing about polymers and plastic composites is that can come out any coplour that's desired. There are some fairly nice neutral grey offerings, but an olive drab version is the more likely bet.
See more details and speculation in the FReepthread *here*.
-archy-/-
122
posted on
11/23/2003 2:47:12 AM PST
by
archy
(Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
To: jonascord
I remember hearing that story myself in the old days. I knew enough about such things that I was very skeptical then. Then the Soviet cartridges were unknown here except for their caliber designations, to explain the situation to any readers unfamiliar with those times.
I remember the person telling me this story well enough to vouch for his complete belief in it's truth.
123
posted on
11/23/2003 3:10:02 AM PST
by
Iris7
( "Duty, Honor, Country". The first of these is Duty, and is known only through His Grace.)
To: Eaker
as for accuracy i found them quite comparable(both my sks' are pre-ban W/ milled recievers, no stamped parts like some of the AK's. the AR-15 was more likely to jam up, cleaned or fired. i have raelly abused my one chinese SKS, dropped it, forgot to clean it, left it leaning against against my jeep overnight in the rain......and it still just keeps on working. thirty rounds as fast as i can squeeze WOOO HOOO. and ammo a fraction the price!(Just bought a 1000 round tin this summer and it half gone! 60 bucks+shipping)
124
posted on
11/23/2003 5:17:27 AM PST
by
gdc61
To: Ex-Dem; *bang_list
Thanks for posting this article. BANG
125
posted on
11/23/2003 9:01:54 AM PST
by
neverdem
(Say a prayer for New York both for it's lefty statism and the probability the city will be hit again)
To: Iris7
My goodness, what an amazingly erroneous statement. The 7.62x39 in no way is interchangeable with the 7.62x54, nor the 5.56x39 with the 5.7(about)x44. Correct, but ours is the 5.56x45, theirs is the 5.45x39. Theirs is basically a 7.62x39 case, necked down to take the smaller bullet. Muzzle velocity and bullet weight are comparable to 5.56X45.
126
posted on
11/23/2003 10:59:52 AM PST
by
El Gato
(Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
To: fourdeuce82d
BANG
127
posted on
11/23/2003 11:27:57 AM PST
by
neverdem
(Say a prayer for New York both for it's lefty statism and the probability the city will be hit again)
To: RANGERAIRBORNE
You wrote about your D.I. firing an M14 with its butt on his crotch.
I tried the grenade launcher of a M203 just to the side of my jewels. I din't do it a 2nd time. I Thank G-D I didn't put it on my jewels. Talk about young and dumb.
128
posted on
11/23/2003 1:11:52 PM PST
by
neverdem
(Say a prayer for New York both for it's lefty statism and the probability the city will be hit again)
To: Ex-Dem
Why don't we re-chamber the M-16, M-4, and M-249 (SAW) for 7.62, to give it a LOT more knock-down power; make them a little more durable, since we're trying to win a war, not a beauty pagent; give the M-16 full auto fire, to make it better for CQB; and make a sub-machine gun version in .45, also good for CQB.
To: gdc61
"prefer the SKS hands down"
Its a great gun!
To: elmer fudd
The Germans spent decades trying to perfect caseless cartridges and even had a working prototype rifle. They finally gave up on it in the early 90's.Actually, the G11-K2 was ready for issue in 1990. The budget got axed when German reunification hit--the need was less urgent, and money was needed elsewhere.
131
posted on
11/23/2003 4:04:06 PM PST
by
Poohbah
("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
To: Thane_Banquo
Bring back the M14! That's the first thing I've heard in a week that makes any sense. I carried one in basic training. It's a heavy mother but will put out some lethal metal. I bought the civilian version about a month ago and stocked up on tracer ammo and hi-cap mags.
If the humvee soldiers need a reliable, compact weapon bring back the M3A1 Grease Gun.
132
posted on
11/23/2003 4:04:24 PM PST
by
CholeraJoe
(Daddy, how many US soldiers have to die in defense of Freedom? Daughter, if necessary, all but 9.)
To: Ex-Dem; CWOJackson
Ditto on the M-14. When I transitioned from the M-14 to the M-16, the firearms instructor was careful to tell us the M-16 was not to be used with a bayonet the same way as the M-14 unless one wished to end up with two weapons. Both of them clubs.
133
posted on
11/23/2003 4:08:59 PM PST
by
CholeraJoe
(Daddy, how many US soldiers have to die in defense of Freedom? Daughter, if necessary, all but 9.)
To: gdc61
***Just bought a 1000 round tin this summer and it half gone! 60 bucks+shipping***
Where did you get that?!?
My brother has a yugo sks, and gets wolf ammo at $75 for 1000 excluding S&H
To: Ex-Dem
135
posted on
11/23/2003 4:13:35 PM PST
by
M Kehoe
To: steppenwolffe
AK74 uses a 5.45mm round, the M16/AR15 uses a 5.56mm round
To: Ex-Dem
137
posted on
11/23/2003 4:39:11 PM PST
by
Momaw Nadon
(The mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work unless it's open.)
To: patton
Hey archy - I like the M16. Carried one for years. But if I were in Iraq, I would aquire an AK74S.
Note that the Russian troops- vehicle drivers, radio operators, and those working crew-served weapons- issued the AKS74U *Krinkov* are frequently less than thrilled with it, and try to pick up a full 16-inch barrelled AK74S just like those you prefer. Accordingly, MikTim Kalishnikov and his elves at the Isvezh arms factory have come up with the OC-14 *Groza-1* bullpup version of the AK with a 16-inch barrel, yet still nicely compact, and suitable for use with the underbarrel-mounted GP30 grenade launcher.
I doubt that either is the *ultimate* AK, and that further developmental spinoffs will likely appear. But it's interesting to note that the Russians felt the return to the 7,62x39mmM43 cartridge was called for, and that the newer 5,45mm cartridge may not thought to be the answer in quite every situation. At least for their situation. I sort of prefer the RPK, myself. When I can't get my hands on a SVD.
![](http://double.uhome.net/gun/gun640/fgun/aks-74u-garage_gun_work.jpg)
138
posted on
11/23/2003 10:02:57 PM PST
by
archy
(Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
To: archy; NRA2BFree
When we come up with a design that's produced by several contractors. . . we'll likely have a real winner again. Single-sourced small arms procurement has got to go. In an ideal world, perhaps. But the world is far from ideal. I only know HK moved an entire facility to Smyrna, GA -- manufacturing, sales, R&D from what I hear. And I'll bet they didn't go to such considerable effort and expense just to sell USP pistols to the public.
I just wonder if the deal wasn't already signed, sealed and delivered long before HK invested in their Georgia plant.
139
posted on
11/23/2003 10:06:02 PM PST
by
Euro-American Scum
(A poverty-stricken middle class must be a disarmed middle class)
To: FlyVet
The idea for a cartridge like this (the 6.5 Grendel) occurred to me independently years ago, but I didn't have the wherewithal to produce one...I've been wondering for a long time when such a cartridge would evolve.
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