VICTORY!!!! Verification expansion goes to President

Numbers USA ^ | 11-19-03 | Roy Beck

[Gunslingr3]

I don't know how long it's been since either of you got a new job, but I know that for at least the last 15 years, every new job I was required to show a social security card and valid identification before being hired, and that this was government mandated.

Why have a card? Why not just tattoo the number on our arms in blue. Naturalized citizens can have their numbers tattooed on too. It'll be great...

[Gunslingr3]

In my neighborhood now, up and down the streets are Mexican women pushing buggies of babies. Who is paying their pre-natal and delivery costs? Ummmmmmmmm . . . . Could it be hard-working American citizens?

The problem in that instance is socialism, not immigration. You're going after the wrong enemy.

[Penny]

You wrote, "The problem in that instance is socialism, not immigration. You're going after the wrong enemy."

In this case, I believe strongly they're inextricable. Once the courts upheld granting public education to people here illegally, other social policies were rich chocolate candy to all who came on board. I'm increasingly resentful, for I work long hours every week and do not have the luxury of pushing babies down the street mid-morning and afternoon.

Let's keep fighting socialism together, wherever it exists!

Best regards,
Penny

[Gunslingr3]

I'm increasingly resentful, for I work long hours every week and do not have the luxury of pushing babies down the street mid-morning and afternoon.

I'm resentful of of socialists as well, but someone who comes here to work isn't automatically a socialist. Most of our immigrants come here to take fantastic opportunities like mopping the floors at night at Wal-mart, or picking fruit. Those people aren't causing me harm. End the socialism and the immigration is irrelevant.

[Penny]

The entire subject started over ILLEGAL entrants to our country. If people are legally entitled to enter the country and take whatever kind of job they can get, I do not find those people injurious to me. But 8 million additional undocumented people here cause increased road deterioration, overcrowded schools, housing congestion--need I go on about the sapping of our natural resources, too? I return to my original premise--perhaps not on this thread but on another today, namely: When only a handful of states suffer, the rest of the states easily turn their heads because they don't endure what citizens like me endure. Do you live in a neighborhood filled with illegal aliens?

[Gunslingr3]

The entire subject started over ILLEGAL entrants to our country. If people are legally entitled to enter the country and take whatever kind of job they can get, I do not find those people injurious to me. But 8 million additional undocumented people here cause increased road deterioration, overcrowded schools, housing congestion--need I go on about the sapping of our natural resources, too?

So would you support measures to limit children born to American families? If 8 million additional people living in your neighborhoods, going to schools, and using roads is a problem, why are only immigrants to blame? Afterall, they pay gasoline taxes to support those roads when they buy gas, they pay property taxes to support your schools when they buy or rent propterty.

Restricting immigration was one of King George III's policies that we sent the Brits packing for, you've read the Declaration of Independence, right?

Malthusian cries about 'sapping our natural resources' seem shallow if only aimed at immigrants, and not at the population itself. Imagine if your parents, grandparents, or whomever made the actual trip had arrived and been told, "Sorry, no room, you might crowd my neighborhood, or use the road my taxes paid for." If they arrived when mine did, no one was asking for their papers anyway. To suddenly throw the door closed and say, "Sorry, no more room for the likes of you!" is a mistake.

[Gunslingr3]

If you or anyone on this forum suspect an employer of hiring illegals, it is your public duty to report the suspicious activity.

Do you live in East Germany, or just want to?

[Klickitat]

"So would you support measures to limit children born to American families? If 8 million additional people living in your neighborhoods, going to schools, and using roads is a problem, why are only immigrants to blame? Afterall, they pay gasoline taxes to support those roads when they buy gas, they pay property taxes to support your schools when they buy or rent propterty."

There is a difference. Children born into families don't immediately have an impact on infrastructure like roads and schools. If a baby boom occurs, the future impacts can be planned for. When you bring millions of people into a country in a span of a few years, adults who drive on our already crowded roads, and children of school age needing to attend our overcrowded schools, it overwhelms the system all at once.

With legal immigration, the impact can be used to help calculate the total number of immigrants per year that will not have an adverse effect on infrastructure, resources etc. Illegal immigration by it's nature allows for no such regulation. People who want in, come in. There is also the effect of millions of people willing to work for any amount of money. They undercut the preexisting poor workers ability to make a living by driving down wages and benefits. As for the argument that illegals pay for what they use, with for example property taxes, that is not necessarily true either. Many illegals live with a large number of people in one house, so they can afford a place to live. When you have 10 or 15 or 20 people in one home they are not paying a tax for each family or group in the home, they are paying as if only one family lived there.

As for federal taxes since it's usually the case that illegals work the lowest paying jobs, they are refunded all federal withholding tax, and if they can get EIC many get back money that they never paid (redistribution of wealth). Consider too, that many illegals work under the table and have no taxes withheld at all.

The list goes on and on, if you are interested check out the statistics and articles on www.fairus.org, or www.numbersusa.com. They have much valuable information on the subject.

[Gunslingr3]

With legal immigration, the impact can be used to help calculate the total number of immigrants per year that will not have an adverse effect on infrastructure, resources etc.

You have more faith in central planning than I do.

Illegal immigration by it's nature allows for no such regulation. People who want in, come in.

Which leaves me wondering how the States grapple with interstate immigration, since they have no control over it.

As for the argument that illegals pay for what they use, with for example property taxes, that is not necessarily true either.

The answer to which is to remove socialism, and make them pay for what they use.

Consider too, that many illegals work under the table and have no taxes withheld at all.

I have no problem with that, the more the better. One thing they don't need more of in D.C. is money.

[Penny]

At first, I thought perhaps I was replying to someone with intellectual, rational capabilities. Please do excuse my haste; please do not bother me with your illogical drivel again.

Penny

[Gunslingr3]

At first, I thought perhaps I was replying to someone with intellectual, rational capabilities. Please do excuse my haste; please do not bother me with your illogical drivel again. Penny

I always wondered how the informants in East Germany felt when the government opened up the Stasi files and let people see what 'crimes' their neighbors reported them for to the government.

Before working to implement a level of police state you feel will secure what you want, keep in mind how that police state could be used against you should you lose the handle to power.

[Kay Soze]

Its is COMPLETLY Voluntary act. Employers are under zero obligation to participate.

S. 1685, the Basic Pilot Extension Act of 2003, was signed by President Bush on December 3, 2003.

It will extend for five years the workplace employment eligibility authorization pilot programs created in 1996. It will also expand the pilot programs from the original five states to all 50 states. Thus, all employers in the United States will have the option of participating, although the program would remain voluntary. Bush has been as successful at securing our border with Mexico as Clinton has.