Working toward an integrated Americas

Miami Herald ^ | Novvember 16, 2003 | staff

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

We will become Sao Paulo, and Sao Paulo will only get worse.

[chatham]

I heard a learned professor who studied the South American countries and their culture say,
"The South Am. Countries are so accustomed to having petty dictators running their countries and abusing them for so long thay will never be able to recover".
I don't remember who said it but It appears to be happening just that way.
This Fox named Fox wants to unload the people from Mexico into the U.S.A. so they can support the the Mexican Economy.
He is probably a Member of "La Raza" and just as probably a founding member of that Racist Org.

How does it Help our economy to give our work to places like Mexico where the people make pennies an hour compared to $30 an hour in the U.S.A. plus benefits and put the American workers out of work.

While we buy our once made in USA products from Free Trade "Partners", has anyone noticed a severe reduction in cost of these products???

At the same time the Politicians are Bitching and Complaining about the lack of jobs which they gave away.
Somebody is nuts.

[Jim Noble]

Let's be clear. The pursuit of a Free Trade Area of the Americas, which continues in earnest this week in Miami, is an eminently worthwhile effort.

Well, this begs the question.

Why is it "eminently worthwhile"?

It does not seem so to me.

Further integration with societies which do not share our heritage or our values, where oligarchs or communists reign over a vast ignorant proletariat living in the fourteenth century, seems like an eminently worthless and stupid idea.

[Jim Noble]

The reality is that the world already is globalizing. No one can turn back that tide.

Globalization could be ended in three months by the Congress of the United States acting on its own authority.

[1rudeboy]

So you're a Marxist? Takes a lot of courage to admit that here? Do you have Hugo Chavez on speed-dial?

[1rudeboy]

While we buy our once made in USA products from Free Trade "Partners", has anyone noticed a severe reduction in cost of these products???

Why should that bother a protectionist? They want to pay higher prices.

[1rudeboy]

You too. Shouldn't it make you wonder that you agree with Marx?

[Jim Noble]

The first step in that process is to recognize that our fates are joined together

False, false, false.

you can't reach proper conclusions from faulty premises.

[Jim Noble]

The American taxpayer will, of course, be expected to bail out all the failed Latin American nations.

It's worse than that.

Socialism in its pre-Zimbabwe stage requires a source of production to exploit.

In the case of a fabulously wealthy pre-socialist empire (like, say, England) the scam can go on for several generations.

In the case of turd world pestholes, it can only go on for a few years.

You, my friend, are the last best hope of a world rushing headlong toward socialism to serve as the outside source of capital.

Socialists, even very smart ones, are blind to the source of wealth.

They take wealth as a given (a preexisting condition which does not require any action to increase or maintain it). The socialist project only focuses on the exploitation of wealth. Since it produces none, it can only go on for as long as there is an external source of wealth to exploit.

For our time, what you refer to as "the American taxpayer" is the target source, all of the others having been already degraded or destroyed.

[DumpsterDiver]

Shouldn't it make you wonder that you agree with Marx?

What I see is the U.S. being the big loser when it comes to these treaties, with NAFTA being an example of that.

[1rudeboy]

I'll simply say that there is plenty of empirical evidence that suggests otherwise, despite how many threads you see here.

[sergeantdave]

Private property rights and environmental protection are mutually exclusive. The state assumes protection of the environment and starts trespassing on private property. Eventually, the state tells property owners what they can or cannot do with their property. What results is fascism, strife and eventually covert and open warfare against the state. If the treaty advocates and pays property owners to protect the environment, then that's good. If not, expect strife.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

I certainly am not willing to make sacrifice for their benefit and I certainly don't enjoy watching our local neighborhoods become barrio's. Instead of us lowering our bar, they should be raising theirs.

Why is this your premise. You obviously deal in generalities.

[DumpsterDiver]

Fair enough, but I haven't seen the benefits of NAFTA to the U.S., so I'll be remaining skeptical.

[risk]

Seeing an old man hugging a kid with a Che-shirt brings one thought to mind: counter revolution!

[Cincinatus' Wife]

.... there is so much infighting and corruption down there, where would someone begin?

Yes because their judicial system is so corrupt. Everyone has to bribe everyone to get anything done. No stability is possible so people like Chavez step in with promises of reform but with the goal of communism. Of course they'll be the elite with their foot on the neck of the people.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Further integration with societies which do not share our heritage or our values, where oligarchs or communists reign over a vast ignorant proletariat living in the fourteenth century, seems like an eminently worthless and stupid idea.

The alternative isn't working. Actually it is driving the problem stealthly into the fabric of our country. If we keep things up your way, before long we'll be over run and drained of our resources and the Marxists will have firm control over Latin America. That isn't a plan JN.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Exactly, trust but verify. If everyone can trade nicely, good. If they decide to get cute we lower the boom. Eventually everyone will learn how to behave. Just like in a family, there has to be a strong leader. If the U.S. was an aggressor nation with designs on enslavement, I'd entertain criticism of us being the cop on the beat but since we fight the bad guys, I say we stay a superpower and maintian the strongest, most advanced military in the world.

[expat_panama]

Globalization could be ended in three months by the Congress of the United States

There's good globalization and bad globalization.  We all agree that we hate countries that export disease, oil slick our beaches, and sneak across our borders.

Let's also agree that we like coffee from Latin America. Nigerian oil, the Beatles, and Chrome from Russia.  We also like internationally managed telephone, postal, and other communication services.   We want most international agreements because they provide for things like shipping protocols and criminal extradition.  Even if those treaties are so boring that we never talk about them.

Nobody wants to end all globalization any more than we want to swear off our morning coffee. 

BTW, anyone who disagrees with me is not allowed to use his Asian-made computer chips to post a rebuttal.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Environmentalism is akin to socialism with its phony justice this and justice that.

Property rights, ownership, the right to a fair trial and true judicial process, all those things give us freedom.