Report: China Plans to Launch Moon Probe

AP/Yahoo.com ^ | November 2, 2003 | AP

[Cincinatus' Wife]

How is government interfering?

Government is the only entity willing to finance large projects tied to national security and economic infrastructure - Panama Canal, TVA, national interstates, etc. Once established business follows and profits. There is water on the Moon at the poles. At the south pole, with a benign thermal environment, are mountain peaks that in near constant sunlight. The far side of the Moon is shielded from Earth's static noise. Comsats and military satellites are between here and the Moon. And you can't think of a way to make a profit?

This isn't a matter of more money, it's a matter of direction. Exploration always opens the door to unimagined things.

Will we continue to be a serious player if we allow other countries to move beyond us in space? Do you think we have the same drive and national commitment we had 40 years ago?

[GeronL]

I imagine that some day the private ships in use will take off like a plane and after achieving orbit will be able to boost themselves toward their destination. we're a long way from there.

[clee1]

How is government interfering?...And you can't think of a way to make a profit?

Oh, come ON! Are you serious? I could think of lots of ways to make a profit on space exploitation. FIRST, I'd have to get an environmental impact study - (10 years and a few million dollars) to ensure my launch pad didn't incenerate some endangered insect, weed, or fungus. Then, I'd have to get "permits" of every imaginable type from every level of government bureaucracy - also costing many precious ducketts. THEN, I'd have to litigate every launch against radical enviro-nazis because of the amount of greenhouse gasses I put in the atmosphere every time I fire a rocket. I could go on for hours.

My brother-in-law works for NASA; I have 2nd-hand knowledge of the tremendous amounts of wasted money and time on the silliest of projects.

Space exploration (and any scientific endeavor, for that matter) should be a task for private business, unless it is a National security issue. Enough of the pie-in-the-sky boondoggles with my tax dollars.

Other countries won't move beyond us in space. As I said to you in another China-beating-us-in-the-space-race post you started, they are doing in the NEXT decade what we did 40 years ago.

I'm not worried about China - they will implode before they are a serious space-race threat.

[clee1]

BTW, when was the last time that the Goverment did ANYTHING efficiently and cost-effectively?

Where is authority for NASA and space exploration in the Constitution?

How much money (and how many lives) did NASA bureaucrats blow away in Challenger and Columbia?

I can admit that spinoff from NASA programs have had an amazing impact on technology, but I still contend that the is NOT the Government's business, and they tend to make hash of everything they touch.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Gosh cleel, you sound a bit anti-American. But I don't question your patriotism, just your knowledge of facts.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

BTW, when was the last time that the Goverment did ANYTHING efficiently and cost-effectively?

* Defeat the Soviet Union (space program/starwars - ie the U.S. can do anything it sets its mind to belief that drove the Soviets bankrupt trying to keep up with us.)
*Panama Canal (boosted military and economic)
*TVA (strengthened the U.S. economy)
*Interstate Highways (strengthened the U.S. economy)
*Computer miniaturization (space program spin-off - strengthened the U.S. economy and military)

Were the payoffs worth the price?

[clee1]

Do I ??

If questioning the benefit of Government projects versus the costs makes me anti-American, then I am proudly guilty.

I love my country, and would gladly die for it - but that doesn't mean I love being taxed to death to pay for governmental waste and contracts to companies that overcharge and underdeliver. Those same companies give huge amounts of political contributions - smell kinda funny to me.

Exactly what "facts" are you questioning my knowledge of?

[clee1]

Good point. The payoffs were worth the price, in these cases. I can and will debate whether any of this was done efficiently or not later.

I have to leave this computer now. I get back later.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

I'm glad you can see not all government is bad.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Worry about China, and worry about our technolgical ability. Look at what's coming out of our miserable public education system.

Private enterprise would be on the Moon now except Congress pulled back after we beat the Soviets to the Moon. They saw no compelling national interest to continue. Stupid. If they hadn't, all those ideas being developed toward a spacefaring society would be in place now. Instead these earnest but pent up economic dreams are desperately trying to find a way to accomplish their goal.

[GeekDejure]

Sheeeesh . . . now the Man In The Moon is gonna have slanty eyes !!! ;-))

.

[Brian Allen]

<< NASA needs to get us back to the Moon. It needs to explore and learn how to work and live off Earth. Once it do that, NASA will be back and ready to move on to Mars. And that's when the business of Lunar/space enterprise will be turned over to the private sector. >>

Reality check: "nasa" never got US to the moon. Back in the days when the "nasa" no-nothings stood back and allowed them to, American creativity, innovation, industry and productivity did that.

Reality check: When the most recent nasa Heath-Robinson/Rube-Golberg space-junk boondoggle fulfilled its inevitable destiny and came apart over the Western United States, not even one nasa employee was in nasa's Houston "control" center.

["Off-Budget!"] "Contractors" occupied every seat while every one of the systemically-corrupt nasa's corrupt creeps was off somewhere enjoying his six-figure sinecure salary and the first-class and five-star benefits of the scores of millions of frequent-flyer miles they collectively accumulate while squandering, on the achievement of absolutely nothing, as much of the confiscated wealth of America's most creative, innovative, industrious and productive as can possibly be squandered.

Reality check: "nasa" could not organise an act of sexual congress for a whore on a ten-months-at-sea aircraft carrier.

Never could!

Never will!

Reality check: "nasa" is to "space exploration" what INS is to the prevention of criminal-alien invasion.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

How ever you want to slice it BA, it's NASA. They pay the freight.

[mhking]

I keep thinking about the sequence in 2010 (the book, not the movie) where the Chinese broke their collective necks to get to Jupiter first, only to have their mission end in disaster.

Just damn.

If you want on the new list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...

[staytrue]

I think the chinese economy today is about triple the size of the US economy in 1960 as the US economy is roughly 20 times the size of the economy in 1960.

[101viking]

"They better not plant a Chinesse flag. I know it is only a probe, but they might want to mark their accomplishment."

I doubt it, they are only going up to see if the Flag we left really says "made in china" on it.

[debaryfl]

Funny thing. I admit to a certain bias, but I have a feeling that they didn't actually do what they said they did (orbit and return a Taikonaut alive). Oh, I know they tried, but I just can't help but feel they have suffered several fatal attempts, and did a Hollywood on this one.

Again, maybe just my bias (I really don't have any use for Communists), but I smell a rat here.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

China has a destination before the Moon, capitalism, because without it, they won't have the money.

Their space program is run by their military. They have dirt cheap labor and no congress to tell them how to spend their money. I think they can run a parallel path of semi-capitalism with an eye on space dominance. Hell, why wouldn't they? We're stuck in the water, while they're making progress. I don't care if it's ground we've covered. The fact that we're not active participants now and did not use and build on what we learned from our race to the Moon, ie stay and build a presence there, shows them the door is open to them to pass us by.

Been there done that? I don't think so. Planting flags isn't the same as developing an infrastructure before moving on to the next phase. If we'd done that, we wouldn't be crying over our lack of space access. When our military opened the frontier, they built outposts and the people followed. We didn't just send Lewis and Clark and then say we'd accomplished something. No, we built an infrastructure that supported and encourgaged private enterprise and expansion.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

I think the did what they said.