BUSH HOSTED RAMADAN DINNER AAT WHITE HOUSE (Mired in controversy)

Yahoo ^ | 10/28/2003 | Staff

[foreverfree]

bump

[OWK]

Anyway, I consider being called a f***ing idiot... a badge of honor.

Then you are very honorable indeed.

[Kerberos]

"That is a complete and total cop-out on your part."

How so?

[Kerberos]

"The government is religiously neutral"

Then if the government is religiously neutral, how come we are having such big rows over things like the Ten Commandments in courthouses and the use of the word god in the pledge?

That would not seem real neutral.

[a_Turk]

Loved the story :)

[Dane]

My grandpa died from a heart attack in 1994. His only addiction was my nana's cooking and the wine he and his friends made every year.

Or is it only pot smokers have heart attacks?

No pot smokers are not the only ones who have heart attacks. I was just trying to show that any day can be our last on this Earth. Like I said before I could be hit by a bus today, but I am not going to ban busses. I am also not going to state that busses are completely harmless, either.

Am I rejoicing over HeavyD's death, no. It is quite sad since he left behind a loving family, but I will remark that it seemed, IMO, that HeavyD did have an attitude that he was a god and nothing would hurt him and that he was the example that heavy pot smoking did "no harm". His words, not mine.

I am in no way perfect and never will be and that is why I don't consciously try to tempt fate with hubris.

[JesseHousman]

You make a great point.

Americans need to consider what is contained in the Koran, namely:

3:151-152 "We shall certainly strike terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved. .. and certainly Allah had made good his promise to you when you were slaying them to pieces by his permission."

8:12-13 "I will indeed strike terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. So smite on your enemy's necks and above these on their heads and strike off all their fingertips. This punishment is given them because they opposed Allah and his Messenger........

9:29 "Fight those who believe not in Allah... 9:123 "Ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."

The Koran is full of passages such as these that prove islam is the religion of hate, murder and enslavement.

I wonder if, before and after dinner, there were readings from this book of the rantings of a madman?

[E Rocc]

"The government is religiously neutral"

Then if the government is religiously neutral, how come we are having such big rows over things like the Ten Commandments in courthouses and the use of the word god in the pledge?

That would not seem real neutral.

It's the addition of such things that is not "neutral". If you look at Roy Moore's rhetoric or the debate about the 1954 Pledge change, the purpose was to advance and promote specific religious beliefs. That's not government's job.

-Eric

[E Rocc]

I wonder if, before and after dinner, there were readings from this book of the rantings of a madman?

Interesting choice of words there:

"merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy, nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."
Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Alexander Smyth of January 17, 1825

He was speaking of the Book of Revelations.

-Eric

[E Rocc]

What you are advocating is tribal justice, wherein if one individual harms another, then everyone in his tribe is guilty and can be punished by anyone in the tribe whose member was harmed.

The Geneva Convention calls this "collective punishment" and bans it. It's really an accurate phrase, because such an approach is indeed collectivism.

-Eroc

[FITZ]

They don't want Islamic law.

Then they don't really believe in Islam or the Koran and would not be true Muslims. Maybe they are MINOs --- muslims in name only which is smart because leaving the religion gets you the death penalty.

[FITZ]

The Geneva Convention calls this "collective punishment" and bans it.

Then why are we killing Iraqis who aren't Saddam Hussein?

[FITZ]

According to it, Christians have not recognized one pope for centuries..

I think there are ways to excommunicate Christians who step too far outside their individual churches. A Catholic who participates in abortion can be excommunicated ---- and then not a Catholic anymore. Excomminucation is one good way of keeping things together somewhat.

[E Rocc]

The Geneva Convention calls this "collective punishment" and bans it.

Then why are we killing Iraqis who aren't Saddam Hussein?

Since the war ended, how many have we killed that didn't attack us first?

During the war, how many did we kill outside of the normal prosecution of the war?

-Eric

[FITZ]

But in the war when we were bombing, there were Iraqis who got killed who weren't attacking even though were were only going after Saddam.

[rintense]

I think that there are many Muslims here in the US who have rejected the 'old school' ways of Islam. The Muslims I know are very progressive. Heck, even Jordan has a very progressive Islamic population- with a few nuts thrown in. Could you imagine what would have happened to these folks back in Pakistan if they rejected any part of Islam???

[FITZ]

I know muslims like that ---- I'm not sure they are real muslims anymore, I doubt they read the koran or practice it ---- I know one who doesn't eat pork but does drink alcohol but she doesn't really say if she is a muslim or not, she's from Iran and she despises what the religion has done to her country and when she's in the USA she definitely doesn't wear the chador.

[a_Turk]

My point is that the other guy was talking about muslims as a whole not following a caliph but comparing that to catholics (and not christians as a whole which is the distinction I make) who do follow the pope.

Don't you people get it? If we're talking about leadership of all muslims, then we should be comparing that to leadership of all christians, and not just to the leadership of the davidians, for example..

This complete and utter stupidity seems constant.. Recall if you will the Bosnian conflict explained: mixing religion with nation when explaining it as a conflict between Serbs, Croats, and Muslims, and not Serbs, Croats, and Bosniacs, or Catholics, Orthodox and Muslims.. A drug induced weakness perhaps?

[FITZ]

Okay --- but a Catholic is someone who follows the Pope and who hasn't been excommunicated. A Branch Davidian was someone who was following Koresh. Another factor --- a Christian can voluntarily leave the faith which further helps make it clear what a Christian is ---- but it's much fuzzier to be a muslim because you cannot leave the faith and you can't get kicked out. I doubt the Arabs are especially happy with the way many Turkish people are following Islam ---- but who gets to define it?

[Cultural Jihad]

Obviously, when our nation went to war against the Ba'athist regime in Iraq, we had in mind the goal of minimizing civilian casualties. But what the Stalinesque collectivist, the Salon Bolsheviki, is advocating here is to preemptively decapitate children under the belief that they are "future murderers." Were children killed in our war against Saddam's regime? Perhaps. Was that our intent, believing them to be dangerous "future murderers" deserving of death? No.