I've heard conflicting reports on this. The police reports were that it was at the 18, last I heard. May or may not have crossed the 18, but the 18 is most certainly closed, and has been since yesterday.
Your file up loaded quickly on my 52 K snail line modem.
One of the problem with the older thread was the massive amounts pictures and graphs. When, that gets to about 700 replies, you need a new thread. We run into this every Freepathon.
Well, if it helps any, Victorville and Fallbrook are both safe. Depending on the region of San Diego, your college roommate may be safe, too - that's a huge area.
I watched last year's forest fires, too... and, honestly, I think that's one of the few reasons that the fire hasn't spread into San Dimas/Glendora area. Which makes me happy, mind you, as I'm in Glendora.
Eek on your house fire! That is a scary sight!
I heard an urgent call for engines saying they that it had crossed...the problem with this feed, is it keeps switching channels...
I heard an urgent call for engines saying they that it had crossed...the problem with this feed, is it keeps switching channels...
Ahh, they've switched back to the Anza term for that fire again. I wish they'd pick a name and stick with it! :)
fire making long runs from below hwy 18 up to top near top of hwy 18. FF firing to stop the breach over hwy 18. FFs appear to be just east of CLiffhanger
Art Bell says he will be taking his first calls tonight exclusively from fire witnesses.
Somehow, I think Art Bell's just using this so that he can cover up something. ;)
Fire less than a mile from R3, Lake Arrowhead. I'm not sure what R3 is????
Thanks for starting this new thread.
At this time we have no idea if the fires were caused by arson or not. If arson was involved, we have no idea who started the fires.
However, there is plenty of documentation that the Watermelon Enviralists set up these forests to become tinder boxes waiting for arson or nature caused fires.
Carry Okie has justposted a very recent and scientific paper to what has set up these fire conditions in S. California and what happened in Oregon last year.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1008628/posts?page=1,20 Crisis on our National Forests: Reducing the Threat of Catastrophic Wildfire [San Bernardino Fires]
The Congressional Record ^ | August 25, 2003 | DR. THOMAS M. BONNICKSEN
Posted on 10/26/2003 5:44 PM PST by Carry_Okie
WRITTEN STATEMENT FOR THE RECORD
OF
DR. THOMAS M. BONNICKSEN
PROFESSOR
DEPARTMENT OF FOREST SCIENCE
TEXAS A&M UNIVERSITY
and
visiting scholar and board member
The forest foundation
auburn, california
OVERSIGHT HEARING ON
Crisis on our National Forests: Reducing the Threat of Catastrophic Wildfire to Central Oregon Communities and the Surrounding Environment
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON RESOURCES
UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Deschutes County Fairgrounds Expo Center
3800 SW Airport Way, Redmond, Oregon
Monday
August 25, 2003
2:00 PM
INTRODUCTION My name is Dr. Thomas M. Bonnicksen. I am a forest ecologist and professor in the Department of Forest Science at Texas A&M University. I am also a visiting scholar and board member of The Forest Foundation in Auburn, California. I have conducted research on the history and restoration of America’s native forests for more than thirty years. I have written over 100 scientific and technical papers and I recently published a book titled America’s Ancient Forests: from the Ice Age to the Age of Discovery (Copyright January 2000, John Wiley & Sons, Inc., 594 pages). The book documents the 18,000-year history of North America’s native forests.
Contact information is located at the end of this written statement.
UNHEALTHY AND DANGEROUS Forests
Our national forests are growing older and thicker, some reaching astronomical densities of 2,000 trees per acre where 40-50 trees per acre would be natural. A forest can stagnate for many decades or even centuries under such crowded conditions. Consequently, plant and animal species that require open conditions are disappearing, streams are drying as thickets of trees use up water, insects and disease are reaching epidemic proportions, and unnaturally hot wildfires have destroyed vast areas of forest.
Since 1990, we have lost 50 million acres of forest to wildfire and suffered the destruction of over 4,800 homes. The fires of 2000 burned 8.4 million acres and destroyed 861 structures. The 2002 fire season resulted in a loss of 6.9 million acres and 2,381 structures destroyed, including 835 homes. These staggering losses from wildfire also resulted in taxpayers paying $2.9 billion in firefighting costs. This does not include vast sums spent to rehabilitate damaged forests and replace homes.
The 2003 fire season is shaping up to be potentially as bad. Fire danger is very high to extreme in much of the Interior West, Northwest, and portions of California and the Northern Rockies due to overgrown forests, an extended drought, and insect damaged trees.
Not only are fires destroying America’s forests, bark beetles and other insects are killing trees on a scale never before seen. Forests in Arizona, the Northern Rockies, and California have been especially hard hit by beetles.
I have been working in California’s forests since the late 1960s. Never have I seen anything more dangerous than the overgrown, beetle-ravaged forests of the San Bernardino and San Jacinto Mountains. I am concerned for the safety of people living in communities surrounded by these forests.
About 90 percent of the pines will be dead when the beetles end their rampage. Then, forest communities like Lake Arrowhead and Idyllwild will look like any treeless suburb of Los Angeles. Whole neighborhoods are already barren of trees where houses once hid in a thick forest.
This disaster affects everyone who cares about America’s forests, but it is especially serious for the people who live and recreate in these mountains. Dead trees are falling on houses, cars, and power lines, and they could easily fuel a catastrophic wildfire. That’s why arborists are cutting trees at a frantic pace, but they cannot keep up with the insects.
Unfortunately, it is too late for the San Bernardino and San Jacinto Mountains. The original pine forest will be gone soon. We must start over, and we must do it fast before a wildfire turns what's left of the forest into brush and communities into rubble.
WHY forests are unhealthy and dangerous
If we looked back two hundred years, 91 percent of our forests were more open because Indian and lightning fires burned regularly. These were mostly gentle fires that stayed on the ground as they wandered around under the trees. You could walk over the flames without burning your legs even though they occasionally flared up and killed small groups of trees. Such hot spots kept forests diverse by creating openings where young trees and shrubs could grow.
Fires burned often enough in historic forests to clear dead wood and small trees from under the big trees, and they thinned some of the weak and diseased big trees as well. These were sunny forests that explorers described as open enough to gallop a horse through without hitting a tree. Open and patchy forests like this also were immune from monster fires like those that recently scorched Oregon, Arizona, Colorado, and California.
Our forests look different today. They are crowded with trees of all sizes and filled with logs and dead trees. You can barely walk through them, let alone ride a horse.
Now monster fires and hordes of insects are devouring trees with unprecedented ferocity because our forests are so dense. The role of drought in causing the problem is overstated. Drought contributes to the crisis, but it is not the underlying cause. There are simply too many trees.
In the case of Southern California, the drought added more stress to an already unhealthy and dangerous forest, so bark beetles took control. They made the wildfire danger even more critical by killing trees, turning them into instant fuel. The smallest spark could cause a human catastrophe.
Trees are so crowded they have to divide what little moisture is available in the soil. During normal rainfall years, the trees have barely enough moisture to produce the sap needed to keep out the beetles. They cannot resist attack during dry years. A healthy forest can survive a beetle attack during a drought with only moderate mortality. A thick and stressed forest cannot. Therefore, the drought triggered the insect epidemic, but it didn't cause it.
We know how we got into this fix: forest management stalled because environmental activists, government officials, and politicians engaged in endless debates on how to look after our forests. Central to the debate is that environmentalists want thick forests. They lobbied for years to convert forests to old growth, which they define as dense, multi-layered, and filled with dead trees and logs. Meanwhile, trees grew and forests became thicker because they care nothing about politics. Now insects riddle our trees with holes and wildfires turn them into charcoal.
The debates continue, and bark beetles have taken control of the San Bernardino and San Jacinto Mountains, as well as other western forests. It is time for people to shape the destiny of their forests instead of leaving the decision to mindless insects and the harsh indifference of wildfires.
(excerpt, please go to the link below to read the rest of this incredible and timely paper).
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1008628/posts?page
FF reporting wind is breaking down a bit near Lake Arrowhead, not sure what will happen tomorrow with wind conditions
They are leap frogging ahead off fire to try a keep ahead of fire