Reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire (Does history repeat itself?)

killeenroos.com ^ | Unknown | Unknown

[FreedomCalls]

The western part of the empire broke up when one of these German generals (Odacer) informed the emperor that his services were no longer required

So when is La Raza going to inform The President that his services are no longer required in Atzlan?

[Intolerant in NJ]

It really is frightening, because the caliber of elected official is continuing on a downward spiral, IMO...IMO you're quite right - I almost said "I feel your pain", but that would have been too pointed a reminder on how low the supposedly best and brightest in public life have really fallen today.....

[Oztrich Boy]

I agree. There may be a pony or two buried in it, but there is also a lot of HS here

Emperors like Nero and Caligula became infamous for wasting money on lavish parties where guests ate and drank until they became ill.

Except Caligula and Nero were early, and it was immediately *after* them that Vepasianus and Titus straightened the Empire out to one that worhed for the next coupla centuries.

First-floor apartments were not occupied by the poor since these living quarters rented for about $00 a year.

Where can I gets me one of them rich folks apartments?

[Centurion2000]

bump 4 later

[Intolerant in NJ]

... you cannot come up with a snap reason why it all happened...actually Gibbon came up with four after his twenty years of study - "injuries of time and nature", "hostile attacks of the barbarians and Christians", "use and abuse of the materials", and -

"IV. I have reserved for the last the most potent and forcible cause of destruction, the domestic hostilities of the Romans themselves. In a dark period of five hundred years Rome was perpetually afflicted by the sanguinary quarrels of the nobles and the people, the Guelphs and the Ghibelines, the Colonna and Ursini. With some slight alterations, a theater...was transformed into a strong and spacious citidel. Even the churches were encompassed with arms and bulwarks...." (chap seventy-one, abridged verson)....

[haroldeveryman]

“….. there was less gold to use in coins. “

Governments also resort to debasing their currency as a form of (hidden) taxation. If the government replaces another 10 percent of the gold in a coin with copper it can pocket that gold and use it as it pleases. Thus, there is more wealth available to the government and less of it out in the private economy.

[Oztrich Boy]

The western part of the empire broke up when one of these German generals (Odacer) informed the emperor that his services were no longer required and declared himself King of Italy. Thus, the Western empire went out with a wimper

Not necessarily a bad thing. An Ostrogothic successor state may have been the last best hope of Europe

Theodoric, who was educated in Constantinople and wanted to preserve the best features of Roman society. said "An able Goth wants to be like a Roman. Only a poor Roman would want to be a Goth."

With the society going on much as before, the average tenant-farmer would only have noticed that the new Gothic Lord was cheaper to keep tham the former Roman Aristocrat landlord, and kept the bandits under control better.

The real disaster was when the civilised Justinian tried to assert control over the West, failed, but destroyed the society while failing.

[Finny]

An eerie read is Taylor Caldwell's "Pillar of Iron." It is the story of Marcus Tulius Cicero, and Caldwell aparently did considerable research to write it. In a foreword, she notes that similarities between the modern U.S. and the Rome of Cicero's time were not intended. It's an excellent book, recommended reading for anyone interested in learning tidbits about the fall of Rome.

[haroldeveryman]

“Not necessarily a bad thing. An Ostrogothic successor state may have been the last best hope of Europe”


Maybe the analogy between the barbarians and illegal U.S. immigration falls apart here. Some historical accounts indicate that the average Roman was relieved when the western empire fell and that the Ostrogothic Kingdom in Italy was popular with the locals.

[wardaddy]

I bought a small freighter in Ravenna once. The old town is till pretty quaint.

[wardaddy]

They are in our gates and we are obligated to treat them special...

[wardaddy]

Did not Theodoric also defeat Attila?

where Theodoric died and was not Theodoric a Visigoth?

Attila was poisoned or had a stroke with his young Hungarian(?) bride....

...need to dust off my Great Battles book....as I recall, many of the Huns chose to be burned alive in thier circle of wagons and ramparts rather than submit.

Refresh me please?

TM....more on parallels for your new book

[Travis McGee]

Some rear guard actions are being planned.

[Oztrich Boy]

Did not Theodoric also defeat Attila?
where Theodoric died and was not Theodoric a Visigoth?

That was Theodacer the Visigoth. (d.451)
Theodoric the Ostrogoth (d,526) was a generatiion or two later.

[Travis McGee]

"IV. I have reserved for the last the most potent and forcible cause of destruction, the domestic hostilities of the Romans themselves. In a dark period of five hundred years Rome was perpetually afflicted by the sanguinary quarrels of the nobles and the people, the Guelphs and the Ghibelines, the Colonna and Ursini. With some slight alterations, a theater...was transformed into a strong and spacious citidel. Even the churches were encompassed with arms and bulwarks...." (chap seventy-one, abridged verson)...."

Civil War. Coming soon to an urban jungle near you.

[Oztrich Boy]

Apologies. I wuz wrong. The Visigoth was also called Theodoric, as was the Ostrogoth.

[f.Christian]

How about public works that overtaxed the poor ... Rome and middle ages both !

[Timesink]

Readers will note the striking similarity to the situation of the present day United States.

I don't. Half of those things listed don't apply to the present day US at all (massive pandemics? rampant inflation? out of control unemployment? inferior technology? I don't think so), and the half that could even arguably be compared to our current situation (military spending, urban decay, political corruption and declining morals and values) are all generic "things sure aren't like they were in the Good Old Days" complaints that people have been bemoaning practically since the day the Declaration of Independence was signed.

[archy]

The Romans evolved, from Camillius and his three lines of skirmisher, main body, and heavily armored "triari" third line, to the Marian legion with chain mail, to the empire with lorica segementata, that you see in the cartoons (asterix and Obelix! ) Later they adopted heavy cavalry which was a weakness in the republican and principate, a major strength in the Eastern Empire.

The motorized units would have come later, following up on the earlier successes of the chariots of Scipio Africanus, no doubt.

[Dallas59]

Did the British Empire really pass, or was it transformed?

ie: United States, Austrailia, Canada..