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The second American civil war: What it's about: Part II
townhall.com ^ | 10/21/03 | Dennis Prager

Posted on 10/20/2003 9:31:19 PM PDT by kattracks

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To: kattracks
So far so good.
I can hardly wait for Part 3.

Conspicuous by its absence (did I miss it?) is the abuse of language. The left's reliance on double speak, phony "polls" to shape public opinion, amd use of the courts to circumvent moral use of the majority rule.

41 posted on 10/21/2003 5:32:50 AM PDT by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: Jack Black
Massive political disagrement is NOT a civil war! War, by definition, involves the use of arms to achieve what poltical means have failed to. A civil war means two sides that disagree have decided to forgo elections and use the weapons of war to settle their differences.

Are the issue dividing left and right more severe than those in the 60s around the time of Vietnam? Maybe.Yes.

Someone has not been paying attention.
This is not simple disagreement. This is in your face by-any-means defiance of orderly reasoned debate: Florida, the threats in California, the control by other means violent demonstrations, arson, explosives in backpacks, the usual historic tools of the clueless-turned activist.

It is the precursor of a shooting war.

When two things have happened, the success of anti-firearms and the defining of self-defense as a crime worse than the criminal's (as in England, Canada), I expect the beginnings of the shooting war.

42 posted on 10/21/2003 5:40:42 AM PDT by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
BTW, if you are going to say the right uses language just a violent please cite sources. TIA.

And please spare us the citations from nuts in obscure web sites; cite public high profile figures as in the "progressive"'s example above.

Every group across the spectrum has nutcases. These are not the ones that really count.

43 posted on 10/21/2003 5:44:02 AM PDT by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: kattracks
The Right celebrates American nationalism, distrusts world organizations, prefers that America lead humanity and regards the United Nations as largely a moral wasteland.

The Right believes that allowing people to keep as much of their money as possible is a moral imperative.

If the word "Right" represents "Republicans" above, then I must conclude that the above statements, and most of this article is BS, or least delusional.

44 posted on 10/21/2003 5:50:13 AM PDT by BureaucratusMaximus (if we're not going to act like a constitutional republic...lets be the best empire we can be...)
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To: Melas
I want to know where the hell The Left ...

It came from a recent national poll that concluded overwhelmingly that this was the case. Dennis did not make this up.
Indeed, it was what finally triggered his exploration of the serious divide between right and left and led to this series of essays.

And I believe it is dead on.

My personal opinion about these symptoms, the car is the biggest threat to civilization, health is paramount, the evironment uber alles is simply the "other means" for the proleteriat to assert control of society in search of the long dead new "perfect man".
If this does not sound familiar, I suggest that you educate yourself. Fast.

45 posted on 10/21/2003 5:55:01 AM PDT by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: All
This post may be of interest:

Is This the Kind of Country That You Want? (A letter to a Republican Friend)

I just posted it here I didn't write it.

46 posted on 10/21/2003 5:55:51 AM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (Gunner, HEAT, ATGM . . .Identified. . .FIRE . . . On the Way . . . BOOM . . . Target, cease fire)
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To: Travis McGee
"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -- GEORGE ORWELL
47 posted on 10/21/2003 5:58:29 AM PDT by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: kattracks
I have a feeling the guy who wrote this is itching for a shooting Civil War. I hate the "left" as much as anyone on FR, but thinking that the Left is unified in any stance, platform, or opinion is as ridiculous as thinking the Right is, and that doesn't make for the kind of passion that explodes into outright hostilities. The battle lines of this fantasy Civil War II will be very fuzzy indeed.
48 posted on 10/21/2003 6:00:20 AM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
I have a feeling the guy who wrote this is itching for a shooting Civil War. I hate the "left" as much as anyone on FR, but...

You evidently don't know Dennis Prager.
I have known and respected Dennis' intellectual and philosophical approach to societal problems for at least ten years.
Three years ago, I would have said it is unthinkable to hear stuff like this from him.

I think it is uprecedented and remarkable, when these ideas finally penetrate the minds of what are mainly thinkers, and outstanding well-prepared, educated well-traveled and historically aware commentators.

49 posted on 10/21/2003 6:08:11 AM PDT by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: Publius6961
BUMP
50 posted on 10/21/2003 6:11:39 AM PDT by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: Publius6961
I think it is uprecedented and remarkable, when these ideas finally penetrate the minds of what are mainly thinkers, and outstanding well-prepared, educated well-traveled and historically aware commentators.

Let me refine my statement, then: I don't think any of the things Prager outlined would, in and of themselves or even taken as a whole, trigger an actual civil war.

51 posted on 10/21/2003 6:12:23 AM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost
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To: Travis McGee
Geez, can't you post any comments without hawking your "book"? Who is your publisher, anyway? I have a gut feeling you are vanity published. You know, some of your posts (sans book hustlings) are quite informative, and sometimes you make good points. However, I think your credibility suffers when you constantly try and push your book. When you become the advertisement, your message suffers.
52 posted on 10/21/2003 6:13:08 AM PDT by ought-six
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
Let me refine my statement, then: I don't think any of the things Prager outlined would, in and of themselves or even taken as a whole, trigger an actual civil war.

Obviously we are in agreement, since I am calmly preparing to go to work as I type this.

But huge, gigantic, obvious highway signs are popping up around the landscape, metaphorically speaking, and we pretend we don't see them at our peril.

53 posted on 10/21/2003 6:16:42 AM PDT by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: ought-six
I kind of like his reminders that the book exists.
I still haven't ordered a copy.
54 posted on 10/21/2003 6:18:02 AM PDT by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: Publius6961
Re: "This is not simple disagreement. This is in your face by-any-means defiance of orderly reasoned debate."

One of the examples produced hourly around the clock in one form or another is the Reagan mini-series. "Grumbling Trickles Down From Reagan Biopic," by Jim Rutenberg, New York Times, talks about the "biopic."

Mr. Rutenberg and the people involved in making the Reagan mini-series have a mission. "It is about telling a good story in our honest sort of way. We all believe it's a story that should be told."

And why is their "honest sort of way" likely to be criticized? Because of the "ugly specter of patriotism."

"If this film can help create a bit more questioning in the public about the direction America has been going in since the 1970's, I guess then I think it will be doing a service." Helping stamp out that "ugly specter of patriotism?"

The makers of the miniseries are going to save us from that "ugly specter of patriotism." You see, they hope that "the film would prompt Americans to be more suspect of their leaders." But not just any leaders, of course. Only those that promote that "ugly specter of patriotism."

BTW, questioning "the direction America has been going in since the 1970's" is extremely interesting. Those were the times that moved the "center" of political spectrum far to the left. Perhaps the speaker meant since the late 1980s. That's when the free press was re-established and the "ugly specter of patriotism" began to re-emerge.

55 posted on 10/21/2003 6:26:47 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael
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To: kattracks
The Left regards American nationalism as dangerous, is more comfortable celebrating world citizenship and prefers that America follow the lead of international organizations such as the United Nations.

And this is the main reason there will be a violent civil war in the United States. People that want to follow the U.N. should move to a country that agrees with their view. To force this on a free people by political intrigue will let slip the dogs of war no matter how many third worlders they ship in to direct the ship of state towards totalitarianism.

56 posted on 10/21/2003 6:32:29 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: Publius6961
Orwell also said something close to

"If you want a vision of the future, picture a boot on a human face, forever."

57 posted on 10/21/2003 6:34:57 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Patriotism is such a subjective word.
Mangled, abused, misused and even used as an insult by those genetically predisposed to a limited intellect; to them, it is a hateful barricade to the simple perfect society so carefully planned after the first World War, and which has fallen on its face like dominoes in the last 20 years.

Socialism is the refuge of the inadequate, and patriotism just pisses them off.

People whom I met as loveable children, go literally berserk, for example, when I play patriotic music during Fourth of July celebrations. This has crossed a pathological boundary, and is an alarming sign.

It is lost on these people that patriotism simply means a healthy admiration for the means of nurturing, sustaining and extending into the future the most moral, successful and desireable society that the world has ever known.

58 posted on 10/21/2003 6:35:04 AM PDT by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: ought-six
Do you know of any other books about the "second civil war" which are up to the minute in their history, including 9-11, the Beltway Sniper, the Patriot Acts? If you do, I'd like to hear about them.
59 posted on 10/21/2003 6:37:54 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: archy
you want on our ping list regarding the countdown?

I do, if you please

60 posted on 10/21/2003 6:40:29 AM PDT by MileHi (+)
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