The second American civil war: what it's about

townhall.com | 10/14/03 | Dennis Prager

[Zack Nguyen]

This is true. What divides America, what makes our elections so close, what spawns sites like FR and Democratic Underground, is a war based in values and, ultimately, religion. Most of these questions can be traced back to what both sides of the country think about God.

[asformeandformyhouse]

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

[Zack Nguyen]

I disagree. Our elections have not produced majorities for either candidate. The 2000 election was a nail-biter. The 2004 election will probably be as well. Both sides of America (represented, to a degree, by both political parties) do not simply disagree, they regard each side as incapable of governing. The left has gone so far as to proclaim Republicans illegitimate when they win, as if they are some sort of invading force that instigated a coup de tat.

That was not the case 50 years ago, or even 30 years ago.

[Zack Nguyen]

I disagree. Our elections have not produced majorities for either candidate. The 2000 election was a nail-biter. The 2004 election will probably be as well. Both sides of America (represented, to a degree, by both political parties) do not simply disagree, they regard each side as incapable of governing. The left has gone so far as to proclaim Republicans illegitimate when they win, as if they are some sort of invading force that instigated a coup de tat.

That was not the case 50 years ago, or even 30 years ago.

[Publius6961]

VIRUS OR WORM ALERT!

Do not click on any link in this thread that is the word "f.i.n.g.e.r" or "fingers"!
Dots inserted to prevent creating a new link!

[Zack Nguyen]

I disagree. Our elections have not produced majorities for either candidate. The 2000 election was a nail-biter. The 2004 election will probably be as well. Both sides of America (represented, to a degree, by both political parties) do not simply disagree, they regard each side as incapable of governing. The left has gone so far as to proclaim Republicans illegitimate when they win, as if they are some sort of invading force that instigated a coup de tat.

That was not the case 50 years ago, or even 30 years ago.

[Publius6961]

VIRUS OR WORM ALERT!

Do not click on any link in this thread that is the word "f.i.n.g.e.r" or "fingers"!
Dots inserted to prevent creating a new link!

[Publius6961]

VIRUS OR WORM ALERT!

Do not click on any link in this thread that is the word "f.i.n.g.e.r" or "fingers"!
Dots inserted to prevent creating a new link!

[ought-six]

"If we must come to blows, I prefer to do it against the invading horde, not against my fellow citizens. But I'll take whatever the clueless among us allow to happen."

The problem is, there are many of our fellow citizens that actively support and encourage the invading hordes, so they, of necessity, must also be fought.

[clamper1797]

As a Northerner, I always related to the Blue coats. As a thinking adult, I side with Dixie, barring the slavery issue. Dixie had every Constitutional right to secede and every right to look after it's interests.

As I get older and hopefully wiser ... I find myself realizing that had I been of age and "in the know" in the 1860's I would have sided with the confederacy ... barring slavery. Actually, as I understand it, slavery was on its way out in the south anyway. Given another 20 years or so, slavery would probably have been abolished anyway.

The other point I find that I am coming to realize is that Abe Lincoln may not have been the great man or president that history has made him out to be. In fact it seems that ol' Abe could have made peace at ANY time during the war saving a lot of lives. Had Abe sued for peace the south might have become a very good ally in lateryears as a separate confederacy of states. In that peace we would have maintained the concept of states rights that our founders intended. And who knows ... maybe the south would have rejoined the north at some future date.

[Snerfling]

The essence of "religiosity" is not stupid academic credits, it's how a culture expresses its real values.

Interesting style - not sure if 'stupid' should have been used as a qualifier. By arbitrarily discounting a principle without proper foundation, it serves to reduce the readers' (or listeners') acceptance of the author's point.

Suffice to say that, judged on your superficial assessment of cultural and religious self assesment, the muslim world is the most religious and beneficent of all.

Now this is where it gets interesting - by linking the primary thesis with a counter-point that lacks any foundation, an attempt is made to immediately redirect the readers' attention to the conclusion.

You might have been better served to first define what is meant by 'beneficent'; as it is currently presented, you have made a strong case for the Muslim's attack on American secularism.

Does this style work with CalTrans?

[Admin Moderator]

I am not sure what you are seeing, but I am not. I do not see the word finger turned into a link. What browser are you using? I think the problem is on your end. There is an old, mostly unused internet service called 'finger', and it may be that your browser is interpreting the word as something to be converted to a link.

Do me a favor. Right click on the link, copy the destination link to your buffer, and then paste it into an abuse report and I'll take a look at it. Thanks, AM

[clamper1797]

Re: post 41. ... My hat is off to you Sir/Madame you have very eloquently told it as it is. There is one other VERY important point that you only very slightly touched on is the reference to "drawing a weapon". It is that weapon and the lefts realization that their nefarious lust for power can never come to complete fruition while those who oppose them still have that weapon to draw. That is the only TRUE reason why they rail against tham and attempt at every chance to disarm those who would stand in the way of their evil. Thank God that our founders had the wisdom to enumerate the right of the common man to "bear arms". It is that right that safeguards our liberty against those "Stalins Sadam Hussiensand Pol Pots in waiting" It is when we as a free people surrender our right to defend ourselves that we will no longer be free and "America" will cease to exist. I for one would rather go in to oblivion with my beloved country than to live in what would follow.

[r9etb]

The growing animosity between the Dims/victims and the Pubbies is obvious to me. Civil war may be stretching a bit, but it appears to me that both sides are fast approaching irreconcilable positions.

Well, perhaps that's true among the hard-core partisans. Prager's problem is that he thinks that everybody in America will have to take sides and duke it out. I think that, instead, most normal folks will just take themselves out of the fight and go on about living their lives.

[Publius6961]

Does this style work with CalTrans?

Although I recognize all the words, this non-sequitur is totally devoid of meaning for me.
Perhaps you should eschew sophistry and address the issue.

Just spit it out.

[MissAmericanPie]

At first blush, I wrote off any possibility of the left becoming so overtly aggressive as to lead to a civil war, then I began to really think about it.

There are so many government institutions dominated by leftists including the FBI, EPA, etc. that have put forth the idea for over a decade that attention needs to be paid to the coming voilence of the right, or far right wingers. The ex-head of the Denver FBI office when asked in an interview who the FBI feared in the coming decade said "Christian fundamentalists". Which I found alarming and odd because Christianity has a great fondness for law and order and would only go to war as a last resort if a situation became completely intolerable.

But when put in the balance, sure, there are some right wingers that have shot abortion clinc doctors, or bombed a clinic, but when counted, those numbers of incidents doesn't take up the fingers of one hand.

The left has a far more impressive record of violence from spray painting women wearing fur coats, to burning down business's and new housing additions, to spiking trees in order to injure lumberjacks, to rioting at G8 Summits, and other incidents that just left my memory before I could get them typed because of so many interuptions this am.

They also, unlike the right, have a flagrent disregard for the law if it can't be twisted to their ends. The right will obey laws they consider bad, the left will twist or break any law designed to prevent abuse of the constitution and engage in criminal activity like vote fraud. Who will ever forget Gore's "There is no controlling legal authority"?

So on balance, I think the FBI is looking in the wrong direction, and I do believe that the left could become violent about losing the gains they have made in the last three decades. Socialism has failed and is failing, I think the USofA is taking a turn right, how far I don't know, I can only hope.

[dljordan]

Dear John,

I have to disagree with you on this. I remember back in the sixties when I first started paying attention to politics that both sides of the debate were MUCH more civil. Today some of the participants in the debate are absolutely rabid with hate. Mostly this comes from the left. They seem to be bent on the total destruction of our culture and our country.

[Publius6961]

I think that, instead, most normal folks will just take themselves out of the fight and go on about living their lives.

That's about as reasonable as asserting that you can "go on about your life" in the middle of your neighborhood gang war firefight.

[Admin Moderator]

I hate to break this to you, but it looks to me like you got a spyware/adware trojan on your machine.

Ad Aware. I recommend you download Ad Aware and run it.

I also suggest you go to Trend Micro and do their free online scan.

Thanks, AM

[Publius6961]

Thanks for the tips.
I have been fighting popups since Sunday and thought I had gotten it all.
I guess not. Time to visit the computer threads!