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Architect of Cain's 9-9-9 plan says he should drop the sales tax
The Hill ^ | 10-18-11 | Jonathan Easley

Posted on 10/18/2011 12:28:10 PM PDT by Brookhaven

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To: Talisker

Sorry you don’t see the logic of using the fact that politics exist against itself.

That’s all that 999 does.

Since politics exist, under the present system politicians vote to raise taxes on “the other guy,” because they can get away with it since “their people” don’t pay the taxes anyway.

Moreover, since politics exists, under the present system those voters getting goodies from the system pressure their politicians to rob from the “other guy” so as to give them more free goodies.

Since politics exist, 999 would fundamentally reposition both the voters and the politicians so that, even though they would act they way the did under the previous system (see above), that no longer works out so swimmingly for them.

Since politics exist, under 999 voters would not be pushing for their politicians to raise taxes on “the other guy,” because there would be no “other guy.” Everybody would pay taxes and everybody would pay the same rate.

Since politics exist, under 999 politicians would find it much more personally challenging to vote for any tax increases because such increases would affect “their people,” not just “the other guy.”


101 posted on 10/18/2011 2:40:11 PM PDT by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: redinIllinois

I agree and, as I posted upthread, I suggest we respond to the spam posts once, make your best argument, and then ignore any follow-on posts. In my experience, those posts just never end, and that is not helpful.


102 posted on 10/18/2011 2:42:23 PM PDT by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: fightinJAG

I’m sure they did talk about it ahead of time.

Like I said before, this is (imho) drawing more conservatives into our camp by opening up the debate options. Consider these two alternatives:

(1) Some conservatives arguing their support for 999 vs some conservatives trying to rip 999 (and Cain) apart.

(2) All conservatives debating the best options and way to implement 999 (and also giving them reason to join the Cain train).

A healthy debate among conservatives who share a common goal about the best way to reach that goal, is better than conservatives fighting among themselves.

Honestly, in just the last few hours (on this site and others) I’ve seen people go from vehemently opposed to 999 to now open minded and willing to discuss specifics. And once you get people into a discussion, then you have a chance to change their mind.

I like the sales tax part, but you have to have the open discussion to get there.


103 posted on 10/18/2011 2:43:05 PM PDT by Brookhaven (I oppose an electric border fence, because it might kill the alligators in the moat)
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To: Brookhaven

Excellent!


104 posted on 10/18/2011 2:43:36 PM PDT by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: redinIllinois

Me, too!


105 posted on 10/18/2011 2:44:46 PM PDT by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: newzjunkey

Why not?

The income tax rates could change immediatly.

If the last 9 is a payroll tax, it could be implemented immediatly also.

If the last 9 is a sales tax, it could be implemented in 6 months.


106 posted on 10/18/2011 2:45:59 PM PDT by Brookhaven (I oppose an electric border fence, because it might kill the alligators in the moat)
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To: wayoverontheright

You bring up a good point about how the transition would be made.

Many seem to think if the 999 plan, it’d be implemented over night and there’d be complete chaos.

Now, don’t get me wrong: the 999 plan would be disruptive (not that that’s necessarily a bad thing). But any businessman knows you have to have a phase-in of some sort when changing over from one system to the next.


107 posted on 10/18/2011 2:47:06 PM PDT by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: Brookhaven

I like the sales tax! I could avoid most of it! :(


108 posted on 10/18/2011 2:47:44 PM PDT by Marie (Cain 9s Have Teeth)
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To: jgge

Let’s say you’re correct.

Your analysis is based on a static consumer pricing and employment picture.

You have not accounted for the most important principle that underlies the Laffer Curve, which provides the principle framework for 999: that is, that taxes change behavior.

What if consumer prices fell? Then your estimation of the NST is way off.

Just an example.


109 posted on 10/18/2011 2:49:28 PM PDT by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: montyspython

“The structure of the 9% sales tax always bothered me a bit, this new version still needs scrutiny, however. Does this mean that the employee get’s taxed twice?”

Yup! So instead of a sales tax that you had *some* control over, this guy wants a second income tax that you can’t avoid.

Plus the payroll tax is HIDDEN. Congress can get away with raising it by little increments and nobody will notice.

I like the sales tax! :(


110 posted on 10/18/2011 2:49:44 PM PDT by Marie (Cain 9s Have Teeth)
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To: milwguy

Cain’s economic team didn’t want t be known because they didn’t want the media ripping them apart. Cain is being honorable by protecting their privacy.

Especially since it would be so much better for CAIN if he revealed their names.


111 posted on 10/18/2011 2:51:19 PM PDT by Marie (Cain 9s Have Teeth)
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To: cynwoody
Relying on voters with skin the game strikes me as the best way to restrain the growth of government.

We must not lose sight of this! This is the punchline in a MasterCard commercial: PRICELESS!

On another thread I said that, while it is very important to hash out issues about 999, at some point it becomes like sitting around analyzing and analyzing and analyzing the side effects of a chemotherapy drug, but forgetting to look up occasionally and remember, "BUT IT SAVES THE PATIENT!"

112 posted on 10/18/2011 2:52:53 PM PDT by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: Longbow1969
Cain would be better off just proposing lower tax rates, cutting regulation, cutting spending, etc.

Pols -- on both sides of the aisles -- have been dribbling that pablum for years. So what?

It took 999 to get us, as Cain said on his website, "in the game" on major tax reform.

Major tax reform IS integral to limiting government. 999, for example, completely cuts off Fedzilla's tentacles in picking winners and losers (i.e., exercising godawful power) in the real economy.

113 posted on 10/18/2011 2:55:55 PM PDT by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: Brookhaven

“How many pages are in the current tax code? Do you know what you get when you turn that over? “

A hernia?

:D


114 posted on 10/18/2011 2:56:07 PM PDT by Marie (Cain 9s Have Teeth)
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To: magritte

Who are you supporting in the primary and why?

Sincere question.


115 posted on 10/18/2011 2:57:52 PM PDT by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: Right_in_Virginia

The current rates are progressive:

10, 15, 25, 28, 33, 35

The first $8,500 of income has a rate of 0.

The problem is they are meaningless, because there are so many deductions that you can never be sure what someone is paying. Someone in the 35% bracket might pay 15% after deductions.


116 posted on 10/18/2011 2:58:29 PM PDT by Brookhaven (I oppose an electric border fence, because it might kill the alligators in the moat)
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To: Darth Reardon

If prices go up for ANY reason, such people are “hurt.”

Also what are the people in your example living on? Savings? Are those savings presently subject to any kind of tax?

What if, as many have said, under the 999 plan consumer prices go down? Would a consumption tax still “hurt” these people you’re talking about?


117 posted on 10/18/2011 3:01:12 PM PDT by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: fightinJAG

At this rate he will be down to one nine before the primaries start.


118 posted on 10/18/2011 3:02:32 PM PDT by Ted Grant
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To: Polybius

9% was chosen because it is the rate at which the plan is revenue neutral.


119 posted on 10/18/2011 3:03:04 PM PDT by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: Brookhaven

Worse, those who aren’t working still won’t be contributing to the nation’s coffers; and it removes control from the People via the sales tax purchases.


120 posted on 10/18/2011 3:05:16 PM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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