Posted on 03/21/2009 6:26:13 AM PDT by cowboyway
Well, let's think about it. A territory needs the ultimate approval of Congress to become a state. So then it would seem to be clear the departure from that union would require the approval of Congress as well. UNLESS the terms of the compact - the Constitution - were violated, and there were legitimate reason to secede unilaterally.
The question is: were conditions so heinous that the states that would form the Confederacy felt it necessary to secede unilaterally? To be even more accurate, did there exist any conditions imposed by the federal government upon those states that could reasonably be said to be a violation of the Constitution?
I know, it’s a point that, for some reason, needs repeating.
That assumes the seceding states are the ones empowered to say the compact had been broken. What if the remaining states say that it hasn't?
Maybe SO..However for YOU to deny that Lincoln wasn't hell bent on sending this Country towards a “Civil” war...Your crazy..The South may have shot first BUT the Blood is on Lincolns hands....How many died by the way?..0
“The plan succeeded,” said Lincoln. “They attacked Sumter - it fell, and thus, did more service than it other wise could.”
So had the Japanese bombed the crap out of Pearl Harbor and by some miracle hadn't killed anyone then your position would be "So what"?
“The plan succeeded,” said Lincoln. “They attacked Sumter - it fell, and thus, did more service than it other wise could.”
“The firing on that fort will inaugurate a civil war greater than any the world has yet seen…you will lose us every friend at the North. You will wantonly strike a hornet’s nest which extends from mountains to ocean. Legions now quiet will swarm out and sting us to death. It is unnecessary. It puts us in the wrong. It is fatal.” - Robert Toombs.
It depends on the events of the time in relation to the Constitution.
Personally, I submit that the conditions up to 1861 did not call for secession.
“Personally, I submit that the conditions up to 1861 did not call for secession.”
DO THEY NOW?
Could be said about the Original States..Let's jest find George in violation of British law...Same events
“I, George Washington, do further declare, that because the people of Massachusetts have perpetrated this brazen treason, all their rights are forthwith revoked. Of course, if any Massachusetts resident disavows his state’s dastardly decision, and swears an oath of loyalty to the federal government, his rights shall be restored. Such cases excepted, federal soldiers should feel free to loot any Massachusetts home. Crops not seized for army provisions should be destroyed without regards to the needs of the rebels and their families. After all, war is hell.
Wrong case. I noted that 3 were framers.
And you overlook the fact that military power was not used until the confederacy initiated hostilities by firing on Sumter.
Bravos Sierra. Lincoln reneged of his promise to Justice Campbell and South Carolina. The federal guns of Sumter were pointed INTO the city. Lincoln sent warships into the harbour. Hostile military acts.
By all means enlighten me.
Bravos Sierra. Lincoln reneged of his promise to Justice Campbell and South Carolina. The federal guns of Sumter were pointed INTO the city. Lincoln sent warships into the harbour. Hostile military acts.
Nonsense. Lincoln attempted a peaceful resupply of the garrison with food only, an act that would have left the status quo in place and which was unacceptable to Davis and his minions. He made his intentions clear to Governor Pickens well before the ships left harbor. In fact not a single hostile action was made by the Sumter garrison or Lincoln prior to the confederacy initiating hostilities.
Of course you're still here.
We can't let our resident buffoon go anywhere.
Or you don't have the pull with the mods you thought?
I wouldn't know. I don't communicate with them.
(You are such a little drama queen!)
Your life is one big lie. You lie about Lincoln. You lie about the WBTS. You lie about me threatening to get you banned.
But, what should we expect from a liberal yankee.
Of course you don't.
“Personally, I submit that the conditions up to 1861 did not call for secession”
“DO THEY NOW?”
I think the conditions and causes are greater now than in 1861. The Left in this country has moved so far to the left that there is no longer much, if any, common ground with Conservatives. Today, our very Liberty and Freedoms are at risk, not to mention our economic survival.
A peaceful Secession would be a much more reasonable alternative than a bloody Civil War. Just wait until “The One” has his “Civilian Army” in place? No thanks.
You've lived in a fantasy world for so long that you have become a delusional paranoid.
I wonder if I should contact the mods about your......condition.............
Who would know more about delusions and paranoia than a Southron?
Well...........you.
Of course, you're so drawn into your delusional paranoia and fantasies that you are no longer capable of recognizing anything close to resembling reality.
Pot? Meet kettle. Kettle? This is pot.
It is interesting that Northern Forebear's fought for self determination and years later fought to prevent it!”Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”
What {NS & Others}don't understand is our 10th Amendment is the TRUMP card against Federal Tyranny..Secession is the message to the madness.. Our forefathers understood unlike {NS} that Tyranny was more easily controlled at Local and State levels...10TH Amendment..Without the RIGHT of Secession all else is empty threats
“A peaceful Secession would be a much more reasonable alternative than a bloody Civil War. Just wait until “The One” has his “Civilian Army” in place? No thanks.”
We are differently in a “fix”..Marxist revolutionary's surround us at every corner and with {NS & His Lincoln Statue} fallowing us around..I don't think “peace” will be granted without US fighting another bloody way!
So be it!!
“God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion... We have had thirteen States independent for eleven years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half, for each State. What country before ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion?” —Thomas Jefferson to William S. Smith, 1787. ME 6:372
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