How to Start World War III: Ukraine Joins NATO

National Security Journal ^ | 7/9/2025 | Andrew Latham

[Brian Griffin]

“NATO could totally kick Russia’s butt right now and doesn’t do it.”

With weapons? Zelensky is in a receptive mode.

With men? The Ukrainian armed forces are battle-hardened to a degree probably not seen since the Korean War.

What would British, French or American troops be able to do that they can’t?

American troops were driven out of Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. The United States has not won a war since 1945. The youngest American veteran that has won a US war is 98 years old.

[Williams]

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Obviously if Russia is held back for three years by Ukraine, adding in the United States plus the rest of NATO would be decisive.

You named three countries the United States was “driven out of”.

Iraq. Not even close. Seen Saddam Hussein running Iraq lately?

Afghanistan. A withdrawal by Biden. No one was driven out.

Vietnam. The communists were defeated and signed a peace treaty. We withdrew.
They attacked when Nixon was pushed out of office and Congress cut off funding. We were not militarily driven out of Vietnam.

[Locomotive Breath]

... but Russia is the sole reason it was originated, unless you really want to make believe and specify the Soviet Union.

What "make believe". Just after WW II, NATO was literally formed to counter Soviet (Stalin's) ongoing aggression and domination. In the present day, the formerly dominated countries that finally escaped Soviet domination are uniting in a defensive alliance under the NATO umbrella to counter Russian (Putin's) aggression and domination. Ukraine was preemptively invaded before it could get under the NATO umbrella.

[Locomotive Breath]

— even to the point of helping the Russians exert whatever force was needed in Ukraine.

Are you suggesting the U.S. would have invaded Ukraine in support of Russian domination of Ukraine? Really? That's nuts. Are you really that ahistorical?

Here's what really happened. After literal centuries of Russia trying to dominate Ukraine, Ukraine made a huge mistake of trusting Russia and giving up it's nuclear weapons. "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." In the present day, why would Ukraine sign any deal with Russia?

Budapest Memorandum

1. According to the three memoranda,[8] Russia, the U.S., and the U.K. confirmed their recognition of Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine becoming parties to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and effectively removing all Soviet nuclear weapons from their soil, and that they agreed to the following:
2. Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders (in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act).[9]
3. Refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the signatories to the memorandum, and undertake that none of their weapons will ever be used against these countries, except in cases of self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.
4. Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine, the Republic of Belarus, and Kazakhstan of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
5. Not to use nuclear weapons against any non–nuclear-weapon state party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.[5]: 169–171 [10][11]
6. Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.[12][13]