Posted on 11/09/2014 11:58:20 AM PST by Charles Henrickson
We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
Ping.
And this whole thing begs the question: Will we as Christians HAVE TO live through the horrors of the Tribulation? I hope, pray and BEG for a pre-Trib rapture of the Church. Why? I am weak.
I will NOT make it. I would likely betray everyone I know. I cannot endure torture. I cannot endure starvation. I am a weakling. I freely admit it.
If the author is saying that we’re going to have to live through the Tribulation, and I’m going to have to see my family tortured, imprisoned, and starved, I might as well give up, because I won’t make it.
*throws hands in the air in hopelesness*
Never study the return without reading 2 Thessalonians, too.
I do not believe that to be true. The Church is raptured before the tribulation is my view.
I do not believe that to be true. The Church is raptured before the tribulation is my view.
The people in Iraq are doing just that, right now. It’s only going to get worse.
When a Christian reads of the torture and agony the Apostles endured, it is not at all difficult to comprehend what men will do to believers prior to the Lord’s return. The Apostles had direct contact and knowledge of The Lord after His resurrection. Jesus said blessed are they that believe and have not seen. I do not believe The Lord expects a fallen man such as me to endure the horrors that will hallmark the Great tribulation ... what husband would welcome the torture and temptation of his Bride?
You may not think you will endure. But when those days come, if they do in our lives. Proudly affirm Jesus as your savior, and pray. You will endure, because you have to.
You are stronger than you believe, and because you recognize your ‘weakness,’ you will be strong and survive.
The fear of letting others down makes one a very powerful person.
“The fear of letting others down AND THE LORD makes one a very powerful person.”
Fixed.
There’s some great videos on youtube (type in Pre-Wrath Rapture and look for some oldies by Robert Van Kampen). He explains this pretty well. The videos are of terrible quality but the sound and content is very good. The short answer is “yes” we will be here. Remember in Matt., Mark and Luke Jesus starts discussing this topic with his disciples as they have just asked him when will all these things take place. In each case He says, “...after the tribulation of those days...” What he promises is that the 2nd half of Daniel’s 70th week (what Christ calls the Great Tribulation) will be cut short. Not the 3.5 years but the time the Elect will have to endure the bad stuff. If you listen to all 3 videos (and there are lots of others but his are some of the best - some by others are not so good) he explains it very simply. After listening, I think you will have a very clear picture of the time line of events. The Lord is able to give you strength. Just look at the middle east and what is happening to believers there. I just read (here on freerepublic this morning) something like 150,000 believers are killed each year for their faith. Now ask yourself, “Why are they having to suffer and we are not?” It’s coming here as well. Perhaps not as severely - but we really don’t know. I just know that there are more and more each day in our culture that hate any and everything associated with God’s moral standards. It’s only going to get worse - just as Jesus said it would. Remember... he promised to never leave you or forsake you so don’t forsake Him. He proved his love by giving his life and because he was a man as well as God’s Son, he felt the beatings, the splinters, the thorns, the nails and the spear.
The good pastor is merely stating historical orthodox Christian belief about the end of the world and the second coming.
What is referred to as the “ great tribulation” is described quite well in Matthew 24 and is spiritual in nature........right before the end of the world there will be a great falling away from the true Faith.
Read the papers lately?
If the New Testament Covenant guides your Christian life then the answer is most clearly no.
Once a Christians accepts Jesus as his savior he is born again and all he will ever need is his.
Revelation was a warning to the Christians of that day when it was time to get out of Dodge. The scriptures in Revelations do not pertain to today’s Christians.
Matthew 24, Mark 8, Luke 21 are all passages about the Olivet Discourse. Jesus plainly says, “after those days...” referring to the tribulation by Antichrist, that we will see the sign of His return...the sun will be black like sackcloth, the moon will be like blood and the stars will fall from the sky (total blackness, but unnatural blackness... and then we are to look up for our redemption draweth nigh. If you are putting all your eggs into the pre-trib basket, you will be like the 5 of the ten virgins who were not ready, had no oil when the bridegroom came. Scripture warns us to always be ready. That does not mean that He can come at any time, but to listen to the HS, so that when these signs that show the beginning birth pangs come forth, the 1st 4 seals, we know that we need to be ready to take our families to safety, thus the warning not to come out when somebody says, “Look, the Messiah is over here, or over there...” but to await the sign of His return, when the natural lights of the sky are removed. When He arrives ALL will see Him in His glory, as there will be no need of the sun any longer. At THAT time, He will send his angels to collect (gather the wheat into the barn) the elect from all corners of the world. Then He will take on Antichrist with the armies of Heaven, and I think those of the earth who did not take the mark of the beast, but were not believers, as well.
When one sees the seals of Revelation, along side the Olivet Discourse, and Daniel’s dreams, then you realize that Christ returns after Antichrist has dealt his blows against the church, but we are raptured BEFORE Christ begins His wrath against the Antichrist and those who take the mark. It plainly states that Christ cuts short the onslaught of Antichrist for the “elect’s sake”. That is somewhere in the middle of the 2nd half of the week, or “Jacob’s Trouble”. Antichrist reveals himself at the mid-point, so up to then, many will not even recognize him. At the point he reveals himself, those of us who are believers will be ready to go into hiding. And the warnings of not being lured out are plain. The sign of His return is plain. Some of us will still be doing what we can to help others to safety, but we have to also be careful that we are not helping those who would betray us. Watch Robert Van Kampen’s youtube videos. They are the best I’ve seen. They are not good quality, but he died in 1999 or 200 from cancer, so they are not recent. They date from the 1990s. Someone copied them for us so I am grateful for that. The teaching is plain, easy to understand. And remember this “the purpose of God brings the protection of God for those who diligently seek Him and obey Him. We will be given protection within the tribulation period, just as Noah was given protection within the flood. He went through it. He was protected within the sphere of danger. Those of us who prepare will also be protected, although some may give their lives for the sake of others...to snatch a few from the flames, so to speak. We are not to fear as those who have no Hope.
One problem with this - it does not deal with the 70th week of Daniel. The first 69 weeks were clearly fulfilled the day Jesus entered Jerusalem. The 70th week has not yet occurred. One week - 7 years. This is the tribulation period. It is coming, and the church will not be present.
The lead article is delusional. Did you see the word “premillennial” anywhere in this article? It disparages “Millennialists” while never telling you what to call the alternative to it. Amillennialism? Postmillennialism? Preterism? The article does not say.
The article uses the ploy of an anti-millennialist: prove the pretrib “rapture” false, then having gotten you eating out of its hands, subtly give you the idea that the author of this piece’s particular anti-millennial view, whether Amill, Preterist, or Postmill, is your only alternative.
All of which doctrines are even more false than the pretrib rapture dispensationalism thet it is so opposed to.
This “we are your only alternative” is the hook used by the anti-millennialists to entrap so many people.
I have heard both doctrines preached in the pulpit. I have seen church upheaval over these two doctrines. I personally believe that when the Lord returns it’s over period.
That being said my question to those who would be upset with this view would be is it more important to argue doctrine on the end times or to preach the Good News? If you argue the for the former instead of the later I would suggest you are misguided as to priorities as per Christ’s own words. If you are saved either way it goes down you are ready and that is important of all things.
*throws hands in the air in hopelesness*
While your hands are up in the air ask God to give you strenth to do whatever needs to be done to survive whatever comes and to stay faithful to him, along with your family.
Read the last 4-5 Chapters of Psalms, where it tells how God wants to be praised....through praise and prayer you will find a strength you have never known. Blessings.
I’m happy to answer your question, Sarge, but maybe you could answer this for me first.
You didn’t write this article I take it, yet you are happy to defend it. In which case, I ask you, since the article did not say which sort of anti-premillennialism it represented, how about you? Which are you? Amillennial? Preterist? Postmillennial?
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