Posted on 02/16/2014 6:09:45 PM PST by JOHN W K
Did you miss my explanation as I applied it to California and Wyoming?
JWK
No, I did not. Did you miss the part of the Constitution that actually specifies HOW representatives are to be apportioned? Let me clue you in: it's "among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers". Funny you missed that: it's actually the continuation of your truncated quotation Next time, read the whole thing before going off your nut.
Not according to their respective taxation rates.
Why do you think they went to all that trouble?
Additionally, the 16th Amendment was never intended to change the intentions for which the rule of apportionment was tied to both representation and any general tax laid among the states!
The 16th Amendment merely confirmed what was stated in the Flint Case, that Congress could lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, and gains without having to apportion the tax.
JWK
Probably not. I doubt that he would want to encourage this sort of thing in any way. He hasn’t posted in over 2 and 1/2 years. This nonsense is a big reason why so many of the stalwarts of FR are long gone.
You are truly dense. the Constitutional rule of apportionment has NEVER been "tied to both representation and any general tax laid among the states". That's an abominably bad reading of the Constitution, willfully ignorant, really.
Inexcusable and embarrassing to the forum.
“The proportion of taxes are fixed by the number of inhabitants, and not regulated by the extent of the territory, or fertility of soil”3 Elliot’s, 243,“Each state will know, from its population, its proportion of any general tax” 3 Elliot’s, 244 ___ Mr. George Nicholas, during the ratification debates of our Constitution.
Now, go back to the top of the thread and take note of all the documentation I took the time to post.
JWK
You haven’t explained how it’s relevant to any point Levin was making.
And this was shortly after Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia had begun the class warfare attack by preaching to the working poor: As I see it, the fairest of all taxes is of this nature [a tax on gains, profits and unearned income], laid according to wealth, and its universal adoption would be a benign blessing to mankind. The door is shut against it, and the people must continue to groan beneath the burdens of tariff taxes and robbery under the guise of law.” 44 Cong. Rec. 4414 (1909). NOTE the words “unearned income” as apposed to “earned income“.
But what these cunning progressive con artists really had in mind was to create a tax allowing the expansion of the federal government’s manipulative iron fist which would eventually be used to squeeze the working people’s earned wages from their pockets in a more devastating manner than any tariff has ever done, and make them dependent upon government for their subsistence! But they cleverly waited for one generation to pass after the adoption of the 16th Amendment and a war to begin before completing their mission which was the Temporary Victory Tax of 1942
This tax un-constitutionally expanded the “income tax” upon corporations and businesses to include a 5 percent temporary tax upon working people’s “earned wages“. And although the 16th Amendment was sold as a way to tax “unearned income” as apposed to “earned income“, the temporary tax on working people’s earned wages was sold as a patriotic necessity in the war effort ___ not letting a crisis go to waste! But somehow Roosevelt’s class warfare tax, which robs the bread working people have earned by the sweat of their brow, is still to this very day being collected and provides the vehicle by which class warfare is carried out through “progressive taxation” imposed upon the working persons earned wages.
Bottom line is, I believe our founding fathers got the taxing system correct and the class warfare crap carried out through current income taxation will only end when the American People rise up and demand our elected public servants add the following 32 words to our Constitution:
The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.
These words would return us to our founding father’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as they intended it to operate! And, the words would end the class warfare which is encouraged under income taxation.
JWK
"To lay with one hand the power of the government on the property of the citizen and with the other to bestow upon favored individuals, to aid private enterprises and build up private fortunes [Obama’s Solyndra/Chevy Volt/Fisker, Exelon, etc., swindling deals] is none the less a robbery because it is done under forms of law and called taxation." ____ Savings and Loan Assc. v. Topeka,(1875).
Mark Levin omitted vital information when explaining the Electoral College
I then when on to explain:
In 2012 Mark Levin took the time to explain the Electoral College to his audience. But in doing so, he omitted a vital piece of information that ties the size of each State’s number of Electoral College votes to taxation, which is no longer enforced and actually encouraged California to elect a socialist/progressive president!
JWK
Your insistence on the absurd is revealing of a profound lack of understanding of the Constitution, first of all, but even more so an inability to comprehend meaning in written language.
No, no ,no!!!!
The size of any state's Electoral College vote is not tied in any way shape or form, either Constitutionally or any other way except in your mind and your mind alone, to taxation.
Apparently you have missed the two formulas: one for the number of each state's number of representatives, and one for each state's share of any general tax laid among the states.
The two formulas are:
State`s Pop.
___________ X House (435) = State`s votes in House
Pop. of U.S.
State`s pop.
_________ X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE`S SHARE
U.S. Pop
JWK
They are not “liberals”. They are conniving Marxist parasites who use the cloak of government force to steal the wealth which wage earners, business and investors have worked to create
I didn’t miss anything.
But I am not swayed by utter irrelevancy. You are conflating the idea of allocation of direct taxation among the States on the basis of their populations, and the makeup of their delegations to the Electoral College, also based on population, albeit indirectly.
But it is NOT based on the taxes they pay, any more than a carriage pulls a mule.
You and I know what the word is for that. “Only those paying taxes can vote.” It is, a naughty word to women, minorities, and illegals.
If a person does not pay taxes, he/she can not vote.
Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress:
And how is each state's number of representatives determined? It is determined by the rule of apportionment which ties both representation and taxation by the same standard --- each state's population size.
What do you have against the rule requiring representation with a proportional financial obligation?
Are you really ok with 45 percent of our nation’s population who pay no taxes on incomes being allowed to vote for representatives who spend federal revenue which the remaining 55 percent of our nation’s hard working and productive population has contributed into our federal treasury via taxes on incomes when our Constitution requires “Representatives and direct taxes Shall be apportioned among the Several States”?
JWK
It’s not PORK. It’s a money laundering operation used to plunder our national treasury and fatten the fortunes of the well-connected in Washington.
let us remember there was a time in our country when even the unemployed were expected and required to contribute their fair and equal share in meeting the expenses of government. A wonderful example of this principle is exhibited in the public laws of Maryland’s Dorchester County, under which all able bodied residents of the county above twenty and under fifty years of age were “compelled to labor two days at least in every year in repairing the roads of said county, with the privilege, however, of furnishing a substitute or paying to the road supervisors seventy-five cents for each day such person may be summoned to labor, the money thus paid to be expended in repairing the roads.”
And the law went on to indicate that “anyone neglecting or refusing to perform such labor, or to provide a substitute, or to pay seventy-five cents per day for each and every day he may be summoned to work, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon trial and conviction before a Justice of the Peace, shall be fined seventy-five cents for each day`s delinquency and costs, and shall stand committed until the fine and costs are paid.”___ SEE SHORT vs. STATE OF MARYLAND, decided February 27th, 1895, upholding the law and not violating (a) the 13th or 14th Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, or (b) the 40th section of Art. 3 of the Constitution of Maryland.
Our founders were very wise to tie taxation and representation by the same rule. Unfortunately, our socialist crowd has managed to overcome the rule by the people's own ignorance of their Constitution and its legislative intent.
JWK
If the people of the United States do not rise up and defend the constitution they have given their consent to, who is left to do so but the very people who it was designed to control and regulate?
In Federalist No. 54 we are reminded that our Constitution’s rule requiring an apportionment of both Representatives and direct taxes “…will have a very salutary effect.” Madison observes in this paper . . . “Were” the various States’ “share of representation alone to be governed by this rule, they would have an interest in exaggerating their inhabitants. Were the rule to decide their share of taxation alone, a contrary temptation would prevail. By extending the rule to both objects, the States will have opposite interests, which will control and balance each other, and produce the requisite impartiality.”
And during the ratification debated, the following comments are made with regard to the rule of apportionment:
Pinckney addressing the S.C. ratification convention with regard to the rule of apportionment :
“With regard to the general government imposing internal taxes upon us, he contended that it was absolutely necessary they should have such a power: requisitions had been in vain tried every year since the ratification of the old Confederation, and not a single state had paid the quota required of her. The general government could not abuse this power, and favor one state and oppress another, as each state was to be taxed only in proportion to its representation.” 4 Elliot‘s, S.C., 305-6
And see:
“The proportion of taxes are fixed by the number of inhabitants, and not regulated by the extent of the territory, or fertility of soil”3 Elliot’s, 243,“Each state will know, from its population, its proportion of any general tax” 3 Elliot’s, 244 ___ Mr. George Nicholas, during the ratification debates of our Constitution.
Mr. Madison goes on to remark about Congress’s “general power of taxation” that, "they will be limited to fix the proportion of each State, and they must raise it in the most convenient and satisfactory manner to the public."3 Elliot, 255
And if there is any confusion about the rule of apportionment intentionally designed to insure that the people of each state are guaranteed a proportional vote in Congress equal to their contribution, Mr. PENDLETON says:
“The apportionment of representation and taxation by the same scale is just; it removes the objection, that, while Virginia paid one sixth part of the expenses of the Union, she had no more weight in public counsels than Delaware, which paid but a very small portion”3 Elliot’s 41
JWK
It is a minor issue without a distinction.
It is alright to raise it, but why to do you feel (1) it is necessary to elevate your minor historical issue by making it a critique of a well noted conservative while (2) trying to call him out by using the nickname he holds on the tube as though it is a slur?
Next time, ping him. I doubt he will care then as this is a tempest in the tea cup this time.
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