Posted on 07/11/2013 6:27:21 AM PDT by EternalVigilance
So? every gain is a plus. If there is one thing we should of learned from the left is that sometimes you have to obtain your objectives incrementally. The attitude that it's got to be 100% of what we want or nothing often gets you nowhere, as it has with abortion the last 30 lyears. Every gain that gets you closer to the goalposts is a good thing.
Don’t take it so personally. It’s not about you. It’s about the only principles that can possibly stop abortion: Personhood, equal protection, and the duty to keep the oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.
“No person shall be deprived of life without due process of law.”
“No State shall deprive any person of life without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
Do you see any exceptions listed there for persons who cannot “feel pain”? Because I don’t.
So Cruz should not support this Texas bill? Is that what you're saying?
LOL - See my post #21 which I posted before you responded to me. Looks like we are on the same page. We have a word for people who won’t accept incremental gains and demand a total win or nothing - “losers”. I’m more concerned about saving as many baby’s lives as possible now than winning a point.
All I see is the perfect being the enemy of the good.
Abortion is not, and can never be, legal, as it violates God's commands, the first law of nature, the principles of the Declaration of Independence, every clause of the stated purposes of the U.S. Constitution, and the explicit, imperative, absolute equal protection requirements of multiple amendments to that Constitution.
Absolutely that’s what I’m saying. Or the one like it that Rubio is fixing to offer up in the Senate.
The flaw in your reasoning is that the bill in question is not "good."
That’s correct, it amazes me these people who criticize measures that are effectively pro-life as not being enough.
Operation Rescue is about the most hard-core and perhaps pragmatic needs to be added in, pro-life organziation in the US, they have welcomed these kinds of measures:
I’ve read “pro-life profiles” before: See http://prolifeprofiles.com/
They are such perfectionists, well, one can see their “Tier” program here: http://prolifeprofiles.com/ I think they go overboard though.
I mean Focus on the Family is Tier 3? And Billy Graham is Tier 4. Rick Santorum, Tier 2 which seems to be pretty good.
When the “Philly House of Horrors” abortionist was charged and convicted of crimes, illegal late term abortions as well as “after birth abortions” were part of what he was charged with.
When Kansas tried to pass “Parental Consent” legislation years ago, idiots in the “purist” camp told us that “NOBODY has the right to consent”. This put the purists on the same side as abortionist George Tiller.
Purists are idiots.
They do not know how to win.
Late term abortion is a mega-million dollar business. A very good percentage of that money is used to fight prolife candidates in every election.
If we want to defund the abortion business, late term abortion bans are the way to go about it.
I am sure that National Right to Life and the National Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Missouri Synod Lutherans and dozens of other religious and prolife authorities think that Senator Cruz is on the right track.
You are way, way out of line to question the “morality” of this legislation.
You have never gotten ANYONE elected.
You have never gotten ANY legislation passed.
Wrong. He was charged for killing already born babies.
Sure I have.
Notwithstanding, it is better to pass no legislation than to pass legislation that destroys the moral, constitutional, and legal argument against the practice of killing innocents.
Might I suggest that you think things through for yourself, for once.
Because these sorts of bills are clearly immoral, no matter what any of these "authorities" say about it.
Choices have to be made.
When fighting a war, does the general attack the train tracks taking prisoners to the ovens, or the factory making bullets for the enemy? The same plane might not be able to do both at the same time.
Choices have to be made.
Purists are idiots when it comes to strategy.
We have a chance to SAVE some lives. We have absolutely NO CHANCE at making all abortions illegal at this time.
Smart prolifers will call your position absurd.
And yet it's still legal in the United States, regardless of your legal and Constitutional acumen.
There are two ways to fix that. One is to go for the sweeping stroke, such as the proposed human life amendment that essentially clarifies the Constitution so that it cannot be interpreted differently than you state above (an I heartily approve of). That's an idea that's been floating out there for about 3 decades now. How's it going? Hearts and minds changed yet? Is the current cop of legislators and judges more likely to see it this way than in the last 30 years?
The other path is incrementalism - using the left's own tactics against them. Every life saved is a blessing, and even the debates over these measures are helping to change attitudes. 20 weeks is absolutely an arbitrary line, and as medical science continues to improve, it's going to be more and more obvious to people that a baby at 16 weeks is little different than at 20. And then that 12 is little different from 16. Eventually, they will have to face the fact that all euphemisms aside, it's human being from the point of conception.
I have been in Court against Tiller myself.
Tiller was charged with illegal late term abortions without proper 2nd opinions.
What you just posted is NOT TRUE at all and you owe me and this thread an apology.
I helped get the late term abortion laws passed in Kansas, and idiot “purists” like YOU fought that effort. Then, after those laws were on the books, that is what brought Tiller to Criminal Court, illegal late term abortions
Under this bill, every single child can be murdered, under the color of "law."
We have absolutely NO CHANCE at making all abortions illegal at this time.
The "pro-life" Republicans in Texas have a super-majority, the last time I checked. And the governor's office. And every other statewide office. And most of the judgeships.
If they won't equally protect all, as the Constitution requires, when they have total control, when will they do so? When they have one hundred percent of the seats? I don't even think they would do it then, to be perfectly frank.
In any case, all they had to do to make abortion completely illegal in Texas was to strike out Texas Penal Code, Title 5, Chapter 19, Sec. 19.06...which is the permission to kill babies that Perry and the "pro-life" Republicans put there ten years ago come Sept.
APPLICABILITY TO CERTAIN CONDUCT. This chapter does not apply to the death of an unborn child if the conduct charged is:
(1) conduct committed by the mother of the unborn child;
(2) a lawful medical procedure performed by a physician or other licensed health care provider with the requisite consent, if the death of the unborn child was the intended result of the procedure;
(3) a lawful medical procedure performed by a physician or other licensed health care provider with the requisite consent as part of an assisted reproduction as defined by Section 160.102, Family Code; or
(4) the dispensation of a drug in accordance with law or administration of a drug prescribed in accordance with law.
Added by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 822, Sec. 2.02, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.
Now that they've passed this current bill, they would have to strip out even more to once again make their code morally and constitutionally-compliant.
I don’t seek to ‘limit’ abortion. I seek to restore the equal protection for every person that the Constitution absolutely requires.
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