Posted on 08/11/2012 5:48:00 AM PDT by marcbold
At least some Catholic leaders are starting to get it. Their long support of liberal Democrats because of what they saw as “social justice” has backfired. They can now clearly see that any healthcare plan from the Democrats will include free abortions and contraception paid for by Catholic institutions and Catholics of conscience alike. Obama is perfectly willing to shove abortion down their throats and has no regard for morality or ethics. Sadly many Catholic clergy will still cling to their liberal values and readily drink the Democrat Kool-aid.
The Bishops seem not to understand that when you make a pact with the devil you are also going to get some nasty stuff ( e.e. free abortions) along with the feeding stations for the poor they so badly covet.
Why on earth would they support the architect of Romneycare?
“There is NO “Catholic” economic or political system and NONE that is intrinsically non-Catholic, as long as the liberty of the individual is respected. The latter would obviously eliminate things like Marxism, even though Marxism is the one the bishops love best, or at any rate, the one beloved of the elderly left-wing bishops. They look like idiots by trying to pronounce on economics.”
Look up the term ‘subsidiarity’ sometime. Yes, there is a Catholic economic and political system. No, it’s not communism or socialism.
The reason the government pays money to farmers to not grow surplus food, and buys that food that they have produced in surplus anyway, is because of the legitimate fear that a surplus will be very damaging to agriculture.
However, the warehousing of the surplus food is exorbitantly expensive. But there can be an adjustment to the system to solve this and other problems at the same time.
Instead of paying farmers to leave their land fallow, they should be licensed to grow hemp instead of food crops. This benefits America in several ways.
First of all, hemp pollen interferes with and reduces the quality of marijuana. Marijuana growers only want unfertilized female plants that secrete the resin with THC in it. Hemp pollen not only fertilizes these female marijuana plants, stopping production of resin, but the seed produced are hybrid of much lower THC content.
Second, hemp requires little if any irrigation, fertilizer or pesticide, and can grow on even marginal farmland.
Third, hemp produces very high quality, non-acidic paper, which is far superior to wood pulp paper. While the forestry industry would decry the loss, instead of grinding trees for pulp, they would be used for much more valuable lumber.
The hemp industry would also create thousands of new, quality jobs.
This relates to food surplus as well. Farmers would still produce enough surplus that it could be distributed to the states as part of their food stamps block grant, to give away in addition to food stamps. Yet the federal government would no longer have to pay farmers billions of dollars to keep all or part of their land fallow, nor would it have to pay billions in surplus food warehousing costs.
Thus, more food for the poor, which should make the Bishops happy. Lots of money saved, which should make conservatives happy. And much higher quality paper as well.
Out of all the bishops of England, only one opposed Henry VIII all the way to the end.
I don't know who that is. But, since they love obamacare, and obama during the campaign, I'm not sure why that would surprise you.
“I don’t know who that is. But, since they love obamacare, and obama during the campaign, I’m not sure why that would surprise you.”
That would be Mitt Romney.
If you think it’s bad for the Catholic church to support Obama because of Obamacare why should they support Romney and Romneycare? Makes no sense to me.
My point -- for those of you in Rio Linda -- is that such a position conveniently implies opposition to the Romney ticket which (connecting the dots for you) implies (once again) support for obama.
oh, those crazy bishops!
Opposition to Romney does not necessarily imply support for Obama.
Perhaps not strictly, but in the case of the bishops, who (for the umpteenth freaking time) collectively love Obamacare and his brand of “social justice”, it’s a real stretch — and oh how they love to stretch — to argue otherwise.
Look, the bishops have little reason to fight FOR Romney, given how Romney screwed them over in Massachusetts over gay marriage and Romneycare.
What you should be arguing for is for the bishops to SIT OUT this election and let their parishioners decide.
If the GOP had nominated someone who was strong on what the Church believes, things would be much different then they are right now. There are some of us inside the church that are trying to keep Catholics from supporting Obama, but the most effective way to do that is to stay far, far away from bringing Romney into the conversation.
I think it's diabolical how the argument has been framed, and how we must settle for "ABO" and be satisfied if that means being forced to buy two thousand dollars worth of compulsory medical insurance whether we want or not, under penalty of law, each and every year of our existence.
Please forgive me for repeating that only one Bishop made any meaningful attempt to argue that socialized medicine in general and obamacare in particular aren't the Almighty's obvious will for mankind, opposed only by rich white guys. That was Bishop Nickless, literally a voice in the wilderness of Sioux City, IA.
The Chief Priest, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, is repeatedly and unrepentingly on the record as declaring that The Church "has been advocating for universal healthcare for nearly a hundred years.". His opposition to the mandates is, presumably, based upon the financial and moral burden that would be placed upon the church as a major healthcare and social services provider. He is otherwise strongly in favor of making you, me, and everyone else of submit to Obamacare, as long as the church gets a waiver on abortion and contraception.
“Please forgive me for repeating that only one Bishop made any meaningful attempt to argue that socialized medicine in general and obamacare in particular aren’t the Almighty’s obvious will for mankind, opposed only by rich white guys. That was Bishop Nickless, literally a voice in the wilderness of Sioux City, IA.”
Why should you apologize for criticizing the Church where she gets it wrong? The Church officials (yes, even the bishops), get it wrong sometimes.
I agree with you that the bishops need to make the stand against Obamacare not only on the grounds that it is a violation of their freedom of religion (due to requiring coverage of abortion and contraception), but also as a violation of Christian charity.
But, here’s the point. We are not going to bend on abortion and contraception, even when everyone else has already blown away. We are going to fight this lonely battle for as long as need be. The Church ISN’T going to comply and Dolan himself has expressly called for ALL the bishops to defy the mandate on Obamacare, not just for the priests but for their entire diocese, laymen included.
Dolan has stated publicly that he will do the same as Thomas More if necessary - he will not comply. And neither will the rest of us.
Yes, it might mean incarceration. Yes, it will mean losing jobs, it will mean decreased prosperity, it will mean persecution, and yes, it will mean that Catholics will be shunted off to one side even by their own.
But that is what Christ promised us right from the beginning. He said precisely this - “he who keeps his faith to the end will be saved.”
Will you fight alongside us sir? We need all the people we can get.
interesting. In the winter I attended a lecture on economics given by a Jesuit, I believe. I recall asking him something (dont recall exactly what) and his response was about the practice of "mortgaging future income" as if it were normal and acceptable. That really took me aback.
Oh, wait. I think the lecture was actually addressing the appropriateness of socialized medicine from a Catholic perspective. I recall finding it very empty other that one exchange cited above.
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