Posted on 09/04/2011 10:54:37 PM PDT by Brian_Baldwin
Man! Are the Perry people flailing on this board? I’ve seen every comment on this thread from “Of course Perry is for a border fence, anything else is a gd lie” to “Of course Perry is against a border fence and here’s the reason why”...can a little clarity be reached in this chicken coop?
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Perry says no to border fence
Sep 04, 2011 9:10 PM CST
NewsChannel 10
Amarillo, Texas - Governor Rick Perry says no to a border fence. The Presidential hopeful told hundreds of people in New Hampshire he opposes a physical barrier between the US and Mexico, saying it would be ineffective and take too long to build.
He said, “1200 miles from Brownsville to El Paso two things how long do you think it will take to build that, and then if you build a 30 foot wall from Brownsville to El Paso the 35 foot ladder business is real good, you got to have people on the ground.”
The comments produced only one angry shout, exposing a long simmering clash with some conservative voters over Perry’s immigration record.
He’s been criticized for signing legislation that gave illegal immigrants in-state tuition at Texas universities.
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Who’s going to be first to claim that Perry is lying about Perry? LOL! If you want something to get angry about, think about this...it’s rapidly becoming clear that Perry has more foggy decisions in his past to account for THAN ALL THE OTHER REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES COMBINED, you may not like it, all the allegations may not be fair or true, but this is YOUR candidate and calling everyone who questions his past an anti Perry troll does NOTHING to clear it up.
This level of ignorance is incompatible with credibility.
“Now go away”
Not appropriate. Learn to exchange ideas in an adult manner.
“What we need are policies to make then leave (not entice them to stay as per Obama policy).”
First let me say I REALLY like Perry a lot. I even blogged about it, you can read my post:
http://jocon307.wordpress.com/2011/08/25/why-we-are-loving-rick-perry/
But I also have to say Illegal Immigration really is his achille’s heel. The Tx dream act is definitely an “enticement to stay”. That is the real problem.
And I understand that Tex/Mex is a real thing and that relationship is just culturally important. I’m not going to judge something I don’t understand and don’t desire to understand.
And I am also VERY concerned with the who-knows-how-many illegals are here from not-Mexico, who come in via the airports and...just...stay.
Can Perry be good on this issue? He needs to be.
Can Romney use his veto of the MA dream act to hurt Perry? Yes, I think so.
But this is an important issue for our side. We can’t just overlook it, as much as I might even like to.
“I voted for [Perry] in every statewide election hes run in. I wont support him for president though.”
Oh my goodness. So who is your candidate?
I highly recommend his interview with Mark Levin. It's 15 minutes and covers a range of things including a lot on immigration.
Before I get to what I've learned about Perry, I would hope you give the same litmus testing to all candidates. On immigration, you'll likely find them wanting. Numbers USA rates Bachmann B-, Cain C- and the others, Palin included, D or below.
You say Perry's opposed the fence in his own words and yet that's not accurate. You'll hear that in the Levin interview. He's consistently and repeatedly advocated for "strategic fencing," such as at metropolitan areas where it has been useful.
He prefers National Guard on the border until 4,000 more border patrol can be added--3,000 in TX, 1,000 more from El Paso west to San Diego. He supports use of aerial assets including helicopters and drones. Why? Because a "surge strategy" using the Texas Ranger has worked in Texas against cartels.
He knows even where there's a double fence today, like San Diego where I'm located, illegals still climb over. He also knows cartels build sophisticated tunnels underneath. Here's an example in Nogales a couple weeks ago. Fencing is on part.
In the interview, he rightly points out fencing everywhere is expensive. In 2007, Congressional Research Service placed the cost of only 700 miles worth at $50 billion excluding both labor and land acquisitions. CRS 2007 numbers)
That'd make a terrific union "make-work" program and an EPA nightmare. San Diego's double-fence had a gap across "Smuggler's Gulch" for years because of environmental wrangling. I'm sure the regulatory issues could be lessoned under any of the candidates running as EPA critics but it'll take an act of Congress to make it happen just as it did with "Smuggler's Gulch."
The Rio Grande is critical for Texas agriculture and forms the entire border between that state and Mexico. What's the impact of fencing it all off from Texans, effectively ceding the waterway to Mexico? Perry knows this and he's trying to be practical: boots on the ground, eyes in the sky, fencing where it makes sense, no amnesty (including no federal Dream Act) and no citizenship as part of any guest worker program.
Perry's cracked down on human trafficking (HB 1372, 4008 & SB 11 of '07), he's increased border security (Rangers on the border; HB1 of '07), enacted tougher employer sanctions (HB 1196 of '07), gone after document fraud (HB 126 of '07) and signed Voter ID.
Unlike candidates with just rhetoric on the issue, we don't have to wonder what kinds of things Perry might do on border security as president. We can see what he's done and where he's always stood.
I noted the most "pure" candidates according to Numbers USA are those with the least record. I find that troubling.
I saw in the NH town hall, Romney's now trying to run to the right of Perry on immigration (full fence, no in-state tuition). Is that believable? Not to me but we'll see if it works for his campaign.
After you've investigated Perry you may still find him unacceptable on immigration grounds. I'm sure you won't be alone.
That's fine as long as it's on his actual record and positions rather than alarmist spin or what the AP and others misreport.
I don't find him to be Obama, McCain or even W.
I highly recommend his interview with Mark Levin. It's 15 minutes and covers a range of things including a lot on immigration.
Before I get to what I've learned about Perry, I would hope you give the same litmus testing to all candidates. On immigration, you'll likely find them wanting. Numbers USA rates Bachmann B-, Cain C- and the others, Palin included, D or below.
You say Perry's opposed the fence in his own words and yet that's not accurate. You'll hear that in the Levin interview. He's consistently and repeatedly advocated for "strategic fencing," such as at metropolitan areas where it has been useful.
He prefers National Guard on the border until 4,000 more border patrol can be added--3,000 in TX, 1,000 more from El Paso west to San Diego. He supports use of aerial assets including helicopters and drones. Why? Because a "surge strategy" using the Texas Ranger has worked in Texas against cartels.
He knows even where there's a double fence today, like San Diego where I'm located, illegals still climb over. He also knows cartels build sophisticated tunnels underneath. Here's an example in Nogales a couple weeks ago. Fencing is on part.
In the interview, he rightly points out fencing everywhere is expensive. In 2007, Congressional Research Service placed the cost of only 700 miles worth at $50 billion excluding both labor and land acquisitions. CRS 2007 numbers)
That'd make a terrific union "make-work" program and an EPA nightmare. San Diego's double-fence had a gap across "Smuggler's Gulch" for years because of environmental wrangling. I'm sure the regulatory issues could be lessoned under any of the candidates running as EPA critics but it'll take an act of Congress to make it happen just as it did with "Smuggler's Gulch."
The Rio Grande is critical for Texas agriculture and forms the entire border between that state and Mexico. What's the impact of fencing it all off from Texans, effectively ceding the waterway to Mexico? Perry knows this and he's trying to be practical: boots on the ground, eyes in the sky, fencing where it makes sense, no amnesty (including no federal Dream Act) and no citizenship as part of any guest worker program.
Perry's cracked down on human trafficking (HB 1372, 4008 & SB 11 of '07), he's increased border security (Rangers on the border; HB1 of '07), enacted tougher employer sanctions (HB 1196 of '07), gone after document fraud (HB 126 of '07) and signed Voter ID.
Unlike candidates with just rhetoric on the issue, we don't have to wonder what kinds of things Perry might do on border security as president. We can see what he's done and where he's always stood.
I noted the most "pure" candidates according to Numbers USA are those with the least record. I find that troubling.
I saw in the NH town hall, Romney's now trying to run to the right of Perry on immigration (full fence, no in-state tuition). Is that believable? Not to me but we'll see if it works for his campaign.
After you've investigated Perry you may still find him unacceptable on immigration grounds. I'm sure you won't be alone.
That's fine as long as it's on his actual record and positions rather than alarmist spin or what the AP and others misreport.
I don't find him to be Obama, McCain or even W.
Dont need no stinkun fence. Keep them from workin and they will stop coming
Expanding on what you said, military doctrine holds that obstacles that are not combined with observation and direct fire serve only to annoy the enemy.
A fence is worthless by itself. The Mexicans will just drive a truck through it, climb over, or tunnel under. If you have sufficiently draconian penalties for trying to get in, you don't need much of a fence. Treating illegal border crossers as invaders will do a lot towards stopping it.
Rick Perry has repeatedly said he is against a fence for the majority of the TX-Mexico border. Too expensive, will take to long to build, will lead to 35’ ladders, etc..
Makes him a nonstarter for me, too. I, gulp, am not even sure I’d support him ahead of Romney at this point.
(Palin is my candidate.)
Personally, I'd vote for just about anyone other than Obama right now. And whoever can make it through the Republican primary will get my vote. I keep hearing “we can't keep voting for the lesser of two evils”, but to me, in this election, Obama is SO evil, socialist, spends so much, keeps proposing new taxes, no jobs, new wars, with Obamacare, and with what we've seen he's given us on the Supreme Court and with his Czars, AG pick, etc, he needs to be gone. I've skipped local and state elections before because both candidates were horrible (NY), but I want Obama gone. I never thought I could think any lower of a democratic President than I thought of Carter or Clinton— until now.
Good post. I spent considerable time during my career as a system engineer working on border security systems. A fence serves two purposes. It marks a border and sometimes it’s a place to hang sensors. Otherwise, not much use.
Greetings newzjunkey:
Thank you for your thoughtful post concerning Governor Perry’s border position(s). It always seemed there had to be a plausible explanation for the Governor Perry border fence flip-flops. Now, in the context of a Rio Grande “fence gap” necessity to maintain our share of waterway sovereignty, Perry’s statements do make sense.
If only the Gardasil issue was answered with such clarity.
Cheers,
OLA
LLS
What a LOAD.
Nobody is going to be pure. I have many reservations about Perry, but Im not a single issue voter. Haven’t made a decision... looking forward to seeing how he thinks on his feet.
I love that image. It says it all.
Sounds to me like Perry’s coming down on both sides of “the fence”.......”No fence”....”strategic fencing”....for commercial areas perhaps???? As when he said they want “the bad guys to be out and the good guys to be in”.
Also sounds like a politicians ploy to be neutral....not one way or another.
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