When Atheists Attack (Each Other)

Evolution News and Views ^ | April 28 2011 | Davld Klinghoffer

[LeGrande]

People who don’t understand math play the lottery.

It is a stupid tax.

[LeGrande]

How does anyone who is religious get past these moral hurdles?

They don't actually read the Bible or understand what it says.

[angryoldfatman]

People who don’t understand math play the lottery.

It is a stupid tax.

You can't win if you don't play. :-D

Or, to paraphrase many of your colleagues, everybody plays, you're just playing with one less chance (0 out 3) than I am (1 out of 3).

[angryoldfatman]

They don't actually read the Bible or understand what it says.

Why bother with actual reading or understanding when you can just grab context-free quotes off of a sympathetic webpage?

Here's something you might could help me understand: if the Bible is fiction, why would it shed such a supposed bad light on its main protagonist?

You'd think the Jews would be better at public relations, especially considering their preponderance in the industry today.

[James C. Bennett]

Here's something you might could help me understand: if the Bible is fiction, why would it shed such a supposed bad light on its main protagonist?

Very simple. Evolving morality. From the Old to the New.

[circlecity]

"1 Samuel 15:3 and the killing of David and Bethsheeba’s innocent child. How does anyone who is religious get past these moral hurdles?"

What moral hurdles? Or are you claiming you know the fate of the child after it died or that you can assume the necessary infinite perspective on the incident so as to evaluate every single factor which precipitated the death and every single single outcome and effect resulting from the death and, finally, how that fits into the overall plan it is a part of. Such a perspective is necessary to attempt to pass any ethical judgement on a transcendent, omnipotent God as revealed in scripture. In fact, one can't question God on moral grounds without presupposing he already exists.

[Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus]

What’s ironic about the whole debate about origins, age of the earth, etc. is that, logically, the debate really CAN only be between “old-earth” and “young-earth” creationists. Frankly, once someone actually understands enough basic chemistry to see that life could not have originated abiogenetically, then the rest is window-dressing, since the whole basis for atheism’s approach to the discussion is washed down the drain.

[James C. Bennett]

Muslims can just as well use that “explanation” to justify the edicts of their Allah.

[angryoldfatman]

Not so simple. You presume all of these bad things were seen as good things when they were written.

How was the event you mentioned (but didn't scripturally quote, that would be here) in any way celebrated as good by the Hebrews? This was done to their own king.

[Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus]

1 Samuel 15:3 and the killing of David and Bethsheeba’s innocent child. How does anyone who is religious get past these moral hurdles?

Frankly, what's one baby, in comparison to the millions upon millions of innocents that atheism killed in just one century? Talk about moral hurdles.

[Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus]

Angryoldfatman, you have to understand - James is an atheist. Pretty much every atheist I’ve ever seen was either too dumb or too intellectually lazy to bother actually considering things like “circumstances,” “context,” etc. etc. when dealing with the Bible. For them, about the best they can manage is to link to one of those “Big list of a billyun and one bibul conterdikshuns!” on some other atheist site on the internet, and let it make their “arguments” for them.

[James C. Bennett]

Angryoldfatman, you have to understand - James is an atheist. Pretty much every atheist I’ve ever seen was either too dumb or too intellectually lazy to bother actually considering things like “circumstances,” “context,” etc. etc. when dealing with the Bible. For them, about the best they can manage is to link to one of those “Big list of a billyun and one bibul conterdikshuns!” on some other atheist site on the internet, and let it make their “arguments” for them.

Alright then, give me the context and circumstances that make the killing of those children "good".

[Texas Songwriter]

Evolving morality

Can you elucidate what you mean when you say 'evolving morality'.

[angryoldfatman]

Frankly, what's one baby...

Careful there, my FRiend. Your opponents will judge you by some standard they don't believe in. ;-)

[James C. Bennett]

How was the event you mentioned (but didn't scripturally quote, that would be here) in any way celebrated as good by the Hebrews? This was done to their own king.

Wasn't it "divine punishment" for adultery? To the victim of it, rather than the perpetrator, however - again, a problem with morality and justice.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary: 15-23. The Lord struck the child. The first visible chastisement inflicted on David appeared on the person of that child which was the evidence and monument of his guilt.

[James C. Bennett]

Simple. The conduct, behaviour and attitude changes of God / Jesus from the Old Testament to the New.

[James C. Bennett]

The Golden Rule is a non-religious standard - do not do unto others what you don’t want done unto you - older than any religion, especially Middle Eastern ones (oldest versions from China and India, by the way) that can settle all moral issues extremely capably.

The cute sarcasm fails.

[angryoldfatman]

Oh don’t you worry there, Titus. I’m all too familiar with the Gnus; I deal with an entirely different level of them at Telic Thoughts.

These here, who are mostly Randians, are a bunch of lightweights.

[Texas Songwriter]

Simple. The conduct, behaviour and attitude changes of God / Jesus from the Old Testament to the New.

I'm a little slow. Can you clarify exactly what you mean by changes in behavior, conduct and attitude of God.....

[angryoldfatman]

Wasn't it "divine punishment" for adultery? To the victim of it, rather than the perpetrator, however - again, a problem with morality and justice.

I bet you never read who actually pronounced a death sentence for the act in question while you were skimming the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. Hint: it wasn't God.

And who's morality and justice are we talking about here? Yours? Why should yours matter instead of, say, the Spartans or ancient Romans, who were notorious for what the did with unwanted infants? Or even the Israelites when they decided to follow pagan deities instead of the much-maligned OT Hebrew God? Or, dare I say, modern day pagans?