The Events That Will Lead Up To The Anti-Christ's 666 Global State

The Ignorant Fishermen.com ^ | April 30, 2011 | DJP ( I.F.)

[TurkeyLurkey]

In Revelation 20:4, tribulation saints are described: ...those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

These would be people who became believers during the last 3.5 years of Daniel’s 70th week. They are also part of the first resurrection, Rev. 20:5.

The rest of the dead that will be raised after the 1000-year reign of Christ are the dead, meaning the ones who are dead in their trespasses and sins (unbelievers), whose fate is described in Rev. 20:11-15.

[FreeMaine]

I have never heard of the Ignorant fisherman DJP

Thanks I will look folward to your post.

[RaceBannon]

Revelation 12:17 is not dealing with the Church, HER SEED is the seed of the Children of Israel, the Church, SAINTS, are not mentioned after the end of Chapter 3.

I think that is what you are confusing, the term saints as referring to people who know who God is and have been born again, and those who get saved AFTER the Rapture

note that in all references to the Church in Revelation, thee is ZERO about the Church after Chapture 3, all the rest is about the world and Israel

Those who are called Saints in rev 14 are AFTER the tribulation has begin, hence, after the rapture.

[jimmyray]

"hmmm, seven, now, where Did Daniel speak of the number SEVEN...Hmmm Wow, you need to calm down, you dont know Scripture like you claim"

I know about Daniel. 7 weeks:

25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. KJV

Read the above for waht is plainly says, not what some "teachers" assert is says.

How did the idea of a "sign a peace treaty" be drawn from "confirm the covenant"?

I would not be so eager to assume the "he" in verse 27 is who the pre-tribbers assert "he" is. Who put an end to sacrifice (See Hebrews 10, Mark 15:38). Whose ministry was 3.5 years? What is this "covenant" (Luke 22:20)? What was the abomination that causes desolation (Matt 23:33-39)?

Do you realize the ENTIRE assertion of a 7 year tribulation rest on this one passage? In light of the entire NT never mentioning a 7 year period, and in fact it mentions 42 months, 3.5 years and 1260 days, does that not give you pause?

[jimmyray]

show me in Revelation the suffering of the Saints who were alive in the Tribulation

17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:17

" 7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. " Revelation 13:7

10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Revelation 13:10

9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. Revelation 14:11-13.

Please look them up and read them yourself!

[jimmyray]

"ALL the tribes of the earth shall see Jesus land on the earth...This is not the Rapture spoken of where only the BELIEVERS will see Jesus in the clouds of the air...How could you or anyone confuse the issue??? "

I won't address the entire argument, but I will simply challenge two points:

1. Provide scriptural evidence that clearly states only believers will see Jesus during the so-called first stage of the first resurrection.

2. Provide scriptural evidence that states believers will be gathered before unbelievers. Once we read those, we will compare them with Matthew 24:37-41, and Matthew 13:30 (36-43 for explanation).

[jimmyray]

"There is no 'corporate' church...The seven churches in Rev. is the church...Every Christian that ever lived is represented in one of those 7 churches... "

That is your informed opinion, and subject to much debate. If you can provide scriptural evidence, I will happily agree these were not 7 literal churches, who each had different issues, that Jesus was specifically addressing.

Ephesians 4:12 and 5:23 refer to the entire (corporate) body of believers, the church, not to geographically specific bodies of believers. Contrast with Revelation chapters 1-3.

[jimmyray]

I think that is what you are confusing, the term saints as referring to people who know who God is and have been born again, and those who get saved AFTER the Rapture

This is an example of circular reasoning. The rapture of the "church" occurs before the trib, so the saints mentioned during the trib are the trib saints, not the "church". Since the trib saints are never called the "church", this is proof they are not part of the "church", indicating the rapture must have occured earlier.

FWIW, the "church" as the entire body of Christ is not mentioned in the first 3 chapters of Rev either, but rather 7 individual churches. Since they don't exist now, is that proof the rapture has already occurred?

[jimmyray]

note that in all references to the Church in Revelation, thee is ZERO about the Church after Chapture 3, all the rest is about the world and Israel

Arguments from silence are always on shaky ground. To wit, Mark, Luke and John never use the word "church" in their gospels (KJV), nor does Peter or Jude. Should I read something into that as well?

[jimmyray]

Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

The Wedding of the Bride and Groom takes place in Heaven...And after the Wedding,

Actually, this says nothing about where the marriage supper of the lamb will be, or when it will be! Don't read into it, just read it.

The placement of the verse is odd, to me, anyway. Why was it not in Rev 4, when John in the spirit (not the body!) went to heaven, which is supposedly the "rapture"? In 1993 or so, when I heard Jack Van Impe confidently asserted this was the "rapture" in the book of Revelation, I began to seriously question all I had been taught (and had taught others) on the matter. I mean, really, that is it? It does not even match the other accounts! Once I beagn to read the scripture for what it says, not what I had been told it said, it all became obvious. I implore you, read it for what it says!

[jimmyray]

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

NOTICE...The angels will gather the elect from HEAVEN, NOT the Earth...Their destination (the elect) is the Earth...The verse is not speaking of anyone going to Heaven...

Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

The armies are the Bride, clothed in fine linen...The church...And the church rides along with Jesus to fight the (one sided) battle at Armageddon...

Do you not see the contradiction in these two statements? Either Jesus comes from Heaven with the saints in tow (Rev 19), or he appears in the clouds, where all the earth can see him, and then he sends his angels to get his saints from heaven (Matt 24).

Actually, he comes from heaven not with his saints as armies, but rather with his angels, Matthew 16:27. Then, his angels- the harvesters - gather the tares first, then they gather the wheat, the righteous - Matthew 13:30, 37-43.

Incidentally, when angels were seen, they were dressed in white, and shone brightly - Matt 28:3, Mark 16:5, Luke 24:4.

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

Oh my friend...indeed I do! He abides with me and in me forever (John 16:7-14)

PS. Love the Hebrew!

David I.F.

[RaceBannon]

if it is silent, then you have nothing to say it is there, either way, you are dismissing Scripture to fit your theology, that is always a bad method

[RaceBannon]

like I said, all you do is dismiss Scripture to form your own theology

I wont argu with you,

Buy Renald Shower’s book, MARANATHA! OUR LORD COME

[jimmyray]

like I said, all you do is dismiss Scripture to form your own theology

I wont argu with you,

Buy Renald Shower’s book, MARANATHA! OUR LORD COME

Far from dismissing scripture, I have listed multiple scriptures that plainly state what I am merely repeating. Please show clear scriptural evidence for your above assertion.

My goal is not to argue with you, but to reason with you from the scriptures. Please search them for yourself, and do not be spoon-fed by Mr. Shower, me, or anyone else! Be a Berean! (Acts 17:11) Beware of Jesus admonition "Take heed that no man deceive you." Matt 24:4

If I have misquoted or misrepresented any scripture, please bring it to my attention!

[RaceBannon]

You arent sounding spiritual by spamming the board, You just need to rest, sit down, and read what was already presented to you

I gave you the links, YOU refute them using the Bible

I am one of th eoriginal posters of articles like this from over 10 years ago, and frankly, I am tired of trying to convince people who hold false doctrine and refuse to address what is already presented to them, nor check out the material that would help them, as I already posted links to

If you wont beleive or check it out, that is between you and the Lord

[jimmyray]

You arent sounding spiritual by spamming the board, You just need to rest, sit down, and read what was already presented to you

Actually, you are the one copying and pasting. I have provided specific, targeted rebuttals to your assertions, and you avoid them and post "links". Really? Address my specific scriptural references with your own logic and research on the scripture, not by saying "here, read this book".

As for copying and pasting articles for over 10 years, posting the same error repeatedly does not make it true.

I challenge you to refute my doctrine with clear, plain scripture!

[RaceBannon]

I genuinely believe that the many people who believe that the Church is going to get raptured out before any chastisement are fools, yet I DO believe in a PRE-TRIB Rapture

The Church as it exists today is NO WHERE near the Church it is supposed to be

Nations get judged in th here and now, not in eternity like souls do

So, who is it that teaches the rapture more than any?

Americans. And American Christians are so wwaek spiritually, drink, sleep outside of marriage, have the ame divirce rate, watch the same sinful shows and the unsaved for the most part

The form of worship in America has drifted from the Holy to the Profane, dancing in churches, rock music in churches, televangelist thieves, the ecumenical movement to unite all churches under one system while denying doctrine and Holiness and truth

I believe America will have some serious judgement before the rapture, and I also believe the world will. The alignment of Islamic nations and the soon to happen war with Islam in general will prove that.

A condition must occur that makes the world welcome a one world dictator, not in theory or conspiracy, but in reality, and that man who is that leader will sign a peace treaty with Israel that will have a dated time period of 7 years.

Whether we know of it as apeace treaty or just a treaty, it will be to provide the protection of Israel, something that Israel will NOT consider now.

But, now that they are surrounded by the Muslim brotherhood, and Obama is now bombing a dictator to help Al Qaeda and does Nothing to bomb Syria or Lebanon with Hamas and Hizbullah, Obama is directly aligning the world’s powers to support Islam and they will regret it

The European nations will awake from their lunacy in a small way, fight Islam by supporting Israel, the Anti-Christ will set up the temple, establish a center of his government in Babylon, and Islam will attack the anti-Christ because he is against the Caliphate but wants the worship of himself

In order for those events to happen, absolute chaos the world has yet to see will be needed, and in that time period, Christians will nto be the favored ones. A Chastisement will occur, maybe through natural disasters, maybe through wars, maybe through one causeing the other

We will certainly be chastised, but NOT in the 7 year judgement. That is for Israel and the world who rejected God.

The judgement of apostate believers is different than the judgement of unbelieving nations