Posted on 08/06/2010 8:27:25 AM PDT by NetRight Nation
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Labor unions sprang to life, originally, as a means to solve a problem. They may not have been the best, most efficient, etc. means to solving that problem, but they were created to solve a real problem affecting people at the time.
This article is trying to debate whether they were an appropriate means, which is an entirely different (and exceedingly academic) exercise.
The “brutality” you speak of and “slavery” (except for, of course, African Americans in the pre-industrial south) is from a greatly over-simplified view of what society was like in the 19th century (at least in the USA). This view is heavily influenced by Union propoganda.
Life was poor, short, and difficult, for sure. Unions didn’t improve it. Only technological advancement and economic growth allowed this to change. Unions played (and still play) NO PART in technological advancement, or increased economic productivity. In fact, unions are probably a net negative to overall increased productivity
Labor unions are socialistic constructs which exist solely through the explicit threat of violence or the coercive power of the state. Their purpose is to extract more money, from most or all of their host entity’s profits, to their members and leadership than what those individuals would be worth in a free market. As with other forms of socialism, in the long term companies which have labor unions and nations which institutionalized them will be internally corrupted and financially bled dry.
That passage prevents the feds from interfereing in employment contracts through regulation, it doesn’t give them the power to do so.
You have just cited the passage I was referencing in my initial post about it being unconstitutional for the federal government to pass labor laws.
The passage prohibits it to the states, but the Feds need not be prohibited since they are only permitted to do that which is ennumerated in the constitution, and this definitely is not.
It is not only false but dangerous to a society that values individual rights, including the rights to contract and to own property.
Whatever injustices existed before unions came into being--and there were--the harm done since has been much greater. Strikes, boycotts, destroyed equipment, delayed or stolen shipments, spoiled foodstuffs and outright violence against persons and property are only the visible part of the iceberg. Much bigger is the transfer of management functions from the owners (i.e., shareholders and managers) to outsiders who claim to represent unionized employees but in reality represent only themselves.
Displacement of management responsibility cascades down from the headquarters of large businesses to every branch office and factory, where work rules demand that certain tasks only be performed by union members and in the exact way prescribed--which is often the most time-consuming and costly.
Government unions, the fastest growing segment of the trade union movement, should have never been allowed to form in the first place. We all pay a premium in higher taxes for the reduced efficiency they have created, whether at the local fire department or in the bowels of federal office buildings.
And the generous pension plans that have been foisted on state and local governments will eventually bankrupt both. Maybe that's what will put the country back on track. We can only hope.
Are you saying that what I am telling you about my mother’s experiences in the public schools is fiction?
Hello, I was there.
Yes, I know that there was a communist tinge to that erea. But there was a tinge to that era because this really happened. I knew the children of Oakies. And it has been amply documented in numerous sources.
It was the churches, not the unions, that pressed for child labor laws. Those laws were on the books in many states before any viable unions ever existed. Later, the unions supported strengthening child labor laws, but not out of compassion. At the same time they were pressing for laws to forbid women and minorities in the workplace. Most of the early appeal of the unions was due to their racist agendas.
Fiction — exactly.
Teachers, as part of the union, probably actually give up their legal right to sue the administration for most harms that evil principals may perpetrate against them.
The whole thing is a deplorable hoax.
Teachers unions? Think about it.
I saw an article on FR last week that said a particular state was in such dire financial straits that it was actually contemplating implementing a program of broad school choice to save money.
This would be wonderful.
Then get rid of the bureaucracy. And, obviously, as you agree, the existence of the teachers union did nothing to manage your mother's work hours, etc.
As for the violence in the schools, it must be dealt with. Period. But, again, as you said, unions have done nothing to ameliorate that situation either.
I have no doubt that teaching in public school is a difficult job, for a bunch of reasons. But that does nothing to support the existence of unions. Sorry, but the entire concept of government schools and compulsory education is fatally flawed from the get-go. Unions have only made the situation much, much worse by squandering trillions of tax dollars over the decades and by saddling the future with unsustainable pension costs -- all without adding a hair of a goat to education or, as you agree, improving teachers' lot.
The question was a challenge to give a single reason why public employees should be allowed to join a union. I gave a single reason. "freedom of association." We have no business telling employees, public or private that they cannot associate with unions.
But your question is different. I do not think the US government should be signing contracts with public employee unions. I have no problem with those unions existing. I have a huge problem with the government requiring employees to belong to them as a condition of employment.
I don't either. But neither do I wish to limit who another American associates with. If a soldier wishes to join a union, I could care less. However, I don't want the US government entering into a contract with a "soldier's union."
In the same way, I could care less if a public employee joins a union... he has the freedom of association. However, I do not want the US government to require union membership as a condition for employment.
When the government becomes a union, then they are now more than the government or servants of the people, at our command.
I’m surprised that you approve of the Army changing itself into an armed union, unionized against the American people like other government unions are. That is when they start dictating to us and running our government the way that government unions have taken over our major cities.
Who needs child labor laws. Those kids are all just communists anyhow (sarc)
If you can't see the obvious propaganda in this article...This is FR. Even if it is an issue people on here are sympathetic to they are not just a bunch of lemmings to be fed obvious BS.
Makes me wonder if whoever posted this is a DUmmie planting a story here.
I am not a fan of labor unions, as I have seen the corruption in the UAW. Husband has had grievance filed against him for silly, stupid stuff. But on the other hand, had my 61 year old father not been a member of a railroad union he would have been let go without his pension when his job was abolished. The union was able to make them find him another job for the 18 months he needed. Of course, that was 36 years ago. A lot has changed.
To claim that labor unions were NEVER needed, holding the position that human life has no value is a requirement.
I am opposed to the communist unions, sure, but I reject the ethical and moral wasteland in which this screed was conceived.. The early unions were about safety regulations as much as they were about wages.
Do no girbilists read history beyond what is required in college anymore?
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