Lt. Col. Lakin’s Article 32 Hearing is not legit w/o an eligible CNC

The Post & Email ^ | Jun. 5, 2010 | Catherine Whitfield

[centurion316]

Your concerns are valid, but nothing of substance is likely to pass the Senate between now and November, they are running for their lives. After November, such a bill cannot pass; a more realistic concern will be what Obama may choose to do by Executive Order.

And your thoughts are?

[Uncle Chip]

And your thoughts are?

The November elections will tell us just what the American electorate are made.

And the evidence at their disposal of the Obama's usurpation of office and the failure of those currently in office to correct that mistake will be part of that make-up.

[PA-RIVER]

It would be incredible if a sitting president would allow this to go on if he is in fact qualified.

If he is qualified, then this act of withholding his BC would prove he has no respect for our constitution or our military. What would be the purpose if only to mock the American people and our constitution?

Either way, this is turning into a complete disgrace for our country. Either way, this only proves that we have man who is unfit for the job.

[centurion316]

Agree.

[Sola Veritas]

“It would be incredible if a sitting president would allow this to go on if he is in fact qualified.”

I agree. His actions on this issue are not honorable and consistent with good leadership. How can one expect the military to show good order and discipline when the Chief Executive does not set a better example.

[jamese777]

When Congress re-authorized the use of force and the funding of additional troops to Afghanistan, those orders became constitutionally legal.
Obama sent additional forces to Afghanistan on a specific request for more troops by General Stanley McCrystal.
Congress (both major parties and the few independents) have interacted with Obama as the president, those actions put the de facto officer doctrine into full effect.
However I’m fine with leaving it to the Article 32 hearing officers on Friday to decide whether or not de facto officer is in force in the Lakin situtation or not.
If they should decide differently from the Investigating Officer and from my supposition, that’s ok with me.
They are the experts on the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I am not an expert.

[Red Steel]

Congress (both major parties and the few independents) have interacted with Obama as the president, those actions put the de facto officer doctrine into full effect.

It's a failure of them in Congress the Democratic party to follow the US Constitution. Obama becoming president took an effort by Congressional members and leaders of the Democratic party to conspire to withhold the background of Obama. Pelosi et al and other members of government have colluded to helped Obama hide his past. The de facto officer doctrine will not prevent Obama and his conspirators from jail. The courts could conflate the basis of the argument that underlies the doctrine to 'protect' the decisions made, but as it stands now, that is not the case.

[jamese777]

It’s a failure of them in Congress the Democratic party to follow the US Constitution. Obama becoming president took an effort by Congressional members and leaders of the Democratic party to conspire to withhold the background of Obama. Pelosi et al and other members of government have colluded to helped Obama hide his past. The de facto officer doctrine will not prevent Obama and his conspirators from jail. The courts could conflate the basis of the argument that underlies the doctrine to ‘protect’ the decisions made, but as it stands now, that is not the case.

---

However the REPUBLICAN CAUCUS in the House invited PRESIDENT Obama to speak at their winter retreat and the REPUBLICAN Minority Caucus in the US Senate invited PRESIDENT Obama to dialog with them about three weeks ago.
Republicans have voted for legislation promulgated by Barack Obama.
The vote on the Hawaii statehood resolution that included “Birthplace of the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama” was 393 to 0.
With over two hundred and fifty Republicans attending the Joint Session of Congress which was being Chaired by Vice President Dick Cheney, no Republicans objected to the certification of Obama’s electoral votes.
Number of bills introduced by Republicans challenging Obama’s eligibility: ZERO.
Number of hearings held by the Republican Caucuses on Obama’s eligibilty: ZERO.
Number of nationally elected Republican officials filing lawsuits, joining lawsuits as co-plaintiffs or filing amicus briefs in support of Obama eligibility lawsuits: ZERO.
Number of well known judges appointed by Republicans shooting down Obama eligibility lawsuits: Two, US District Court Judge Clay Land in Georgia (a former Republican state legislator). Judge Land fined Orly Taitz $20,000 for inappropriate behavior.
US Chief District Judge Royce C. Lamberth, a Reagan appointee who said the following in his dimissal order:
“This is one of several such suits filed by Ms. Taitz in her quixotic attempt to prove that President Obama is not a natural born citizen as required by Constitution. See U.S. CONST. art. II, § 1. This Court is not willing to go tilting at windmills with her.”
Number of Republican state Attorney Generals defending Obama in eligibility lawsuits: TWO, Hawaii’s Attorney General Mark Bennett and Indiana Attorney General Greg Zoeller who defended Obama in Ankeny et. al. v The Governor of Indiana.

If you don’t think that judges and justices take all those actions of Obama’s political opposition into account, you’re fooling yourself.

I quote from the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in 1886 that established the DeFacto Officer Doctrine: “The defacto officer doctrine CONFERS VALIDITY upon acts performed by a person ACTING under the color of official title even though it is later discovered that the legality of that person’s appointment or election to office is deficient.”—Norton v Shelby County, 118 U.S. 425, 440 (1886).

[Red Steel]

However the REPUBLICAN CAUCUS in the House invited PRESIDENT Obama to speak at their winter retreat and the REPUBLICAN Minority Caucus in the US Senate invited PRESIDENT Obama to dialog with them about three weeks ago. Republicans have voted for legislation promulgated by Barack Obama.

Irrelevant. Although they took the opportunity to tear him up.

The vote on the Hawaii statehood resolution that included “Birthplace of the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama” was 393 to 0.

A meaningless resolution as it pertains to law.

Number of hearings held by the Republican Caucuses on Obama’s eligibilty: ZERO.

Irrelevant.

Number of nationally elected Republican officials filing lawsuits, joining lawsuits as co-plaintiffs or filing amicus briefs in support of Obama eligibility lawsuits: ZERO.

Again irrelevant. acquiescence doesn't make Obama eligible for office.

Number of Republican state Attorney Generals defending Obama in eligibility lawsuits: TWO, Hawaii’s Attorney General Mark Bennett and Indiana Attorney General Greg Zoeller who defended Obama in Ankeny et. al. v The Governor of Indiana.

Ankeny is a joke that has been shown why to you numerous times.

The Hawaiian government has been deceptive to protect Obama.

[jamese777]

What’s “irrelevant” to you and what might be relevant to the Lieutenant Colonel Lakin’s Commanding Officer with regard to the Article 32 Hearing just might well be two completely different things.

“The Defacto Officer Doctrine confers validity upon acts performed by a person acting under the color of official title even though it is later discovered that the legality of that person’s appointment or election to office is deficient.”—Norton v Shelby County, 118 U.S. 425, 440 (1886)

[Red Steel]

You're still a silly Obot.

“The Defacto Officer Doctrine confers validity upon acts performed by a person acting under the color of official title even though it is later discovered that the legality of that person’s appointment or election to office is deficient.”—Norton v Shelby County, 118 U.S. 425, 440 (1886)

This case that is also cited by the Supreme Court in Ryder v. U.S. , 1995 is consistent with the Vermont Supreme Court views that I've repeated to you more than a few times.

In the STATE_V_OREN.92-113; 160 Vt. 245; 627 A.2d 337,

it states:

"Whether the officer with defective title appeared to be an intruder or usurper depends on whether other government officials and the public reasonably believed that the officer was entitled to exercise the powers of her office during the period of defective title. Id. at 261. Under the de facto officer doctrine, it is irrelevant whether defendant understood the deputy sheriff was a law enforcement officer on the occasion in question."

This passage from the Vermont Supreme Court's opinion make two statements. One is that the "public reasonably believe" the officer is entitled to office. With Obama, there are millions of American who have more than reasonable suspicions that Obama has usurped the presidential office.

And number two.

At the time of his unlawful act, the defendant believed that the officer was entitled to his office. It is also stated that the defense discovered after the fact that the deputy sheriff usurped the office. The difference here is that LTC Lakin reasonably believes that Obama was and is an Usurper. Lakin has questioned the authorities and his chain of command without satisfaction for about a year and a half, which he has documented.

The Vermont opinion further states,

"To satisfy the doctrine, the officer must be "in the unobstructed possession of the office and discharging its duties in full view of the public, in such manner and under such circumstances as not to present the appearance of being an intruder or usurper." Waite v. Santa Cruz, 184 U.S. 302, 323 (1902). "

We have seen Obama acting more than just as an intruder or usurper where RXSID gave you a presentation further up in the [another] thread. We have statements from Michelle Obama, and Kenyan government officials that state unequivocally that Obama is a Kenyan and was born in Kenya:

-- - - - -

This country and its government cannot say Oh, we just found out that Obama is a usurper. We didn't know...no one told us. We had no idea! That would be complete BS. Acquiescence by this government who have their collective heads where the sun doesn't shine isn't an excuse. Millions and millions of people have questioned Obama before he was "president" and during it. I could give you an endless list from all corners of this country saying Obama is not qualified for office under the natural born citizen clause. This is an utter failure of this country led by Democrats who know and Republicans who acquiescence their duties to defend and protect the Constitution of the Unites States.

As for LTC Lakin, he didn't disobey an order to deploy because he just didn't want to go to a war zone, and say Obama is an Usuper after the fact. to get out of it. He invited his court martial because he knew before Obama is not qualified for Office. No Obot, he as millions of other Americans believe Obama is not qualified for office. It is the very reason why he has disobeyed the order to deploy to the war zone that directly comes from the White House and was echoed down through the chain-of-command. LTC Lakin's timeline proves that he as questioned Obama's credentials to hold presidential office for a very long time and never got a satisfactory answer for his questions - NONE.

[El Gato]

I cannot think of a job other than dictator where you could be appointed/elected and then later questions arise about deceit getting the position that the issues would not be looked into in detail.

Exactly. There is a story around now about a guy who lied about previous military experience, when enlisting in the reserve branch of a different service than the one he was claiming experience in. They not only enlisted him, but granted him a rank equivalent to the one he claimed.

When he was found out, they did not wait until time for him to re-enlist to kick his ash out.

Why should we, the people, and his employers have to wait until the next election to remove a usurper, who lied about his qualifications?

[El Gato]

Until it reaches that level, it is government's

Last I looked, the military was part of the government. One of the legitimate parts of course, but still a part of it.

[El Gato]

The main reason for this is that the Officer Corps does not believe that any member of the military has any right to refuse to deploy on political grounds

What is "political" about the requirements laid out in the Consitution for eligibility to the office of President? Did not each and every officer swear to support and defend that document? Surely that includes the Article II Section 1 eligiblity requirements. If it doesn't, why not? Why are officers required to take that oath in the first place (other than that requirment too is in the Constitution, Article VI)?

[centurion316]

Its political because that’s the nature of the issue. If it were just a Constitutional issue, it would already be in the courts and possible already resolved. But, because it concerns the highest political office in the land, and because both major political parties won’t touch it with a 10 foot pole, it has become nothing but a political issue. That’s why the courts will never hear the arguments and why the military will never allow Mr. Obama’s eligibility to be discussed in a military court. That will never happen.

I’m not saying that this is the way things ought to be, or that’s its right in any way. Its just the way it is. Politics has always played a role in the interpretation of the Constitution and the enforcement of our laws. This case will remain radioactive until the politicians come to grips with it. That will only happen when the voters insist that they do. Right now, most voters are indifferent, so its not going to go anywhere.

[83Vet4Life]

This episode proves the whole military is corrupt from the officer level up. It wasn’t like that in my day. Our fighting men are the only ones I trust now.

[wintertime]

It is interesting that not even one Obot has responded to your posts.

Why? Because it is difficult to trash truth.

No real American president would allow this to get as far as it has. Instead, a **real** natural born American president would be HONORED to promptly prove to his troops ( with the very best evidence) that he was indeed eligible to be their Commander in Chief.

Obama is mocking the American people, the Constitution, and our brave military.

[wintertime]

That effort begins in November with the election of Senators who will put a stop to the confirmation of Obama’s nominees until we can send him on his way in 2012.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So?....What happens after the illegals are given the right to vote ( multiple times each), the Census is counted in the Democrats favor, and ACORN corrupts the elections?

The time to act against evil is **NOW**! “We the people” must demand that he prove he is eligible and if he is not, “we the people” must demand that he be removed.

[magslinger]

Barring the declaration of martial law, the military is the government’s and not the government. The military takes the orders of the civilian government for who gets hurt, what gets broken. That IMHO is a good arrangement.

[fireman15]

“Its political because that’s the nature of the issue. If it were just a Constitutional issue, it would already be in the courts and possible already resolved.”

I agree that the eligibility question has been stalled largely because of politics. The military has punted on the previous challenges to let the issue slide. I am optimistic that Lt. Col. Lakin’s challenge will go further than the rest, because of his exemplary record and who he is. He is a highly decorated well respected surgeon. He is a good man. He is a man of principle. In other words... he is Obama’s worst nightmare.

The previous military challenges were from honorable soldiers, but none had the stature of Col. Lakin. If he receives a harsh sentence, he will not be forgotten while breaking rocks an Leavenworth. To the contrary... I confidently predict that he would become a cause célèbre and would give the eligibility issue the legitimacy that so far the mainstream media has managed to deny it. It would give Republicans and right wing pundits a way to bring up the eliegibility question without fear of being ridiculed... a good man, a doctor is suffering all because Obama refused to spend $15 on a long form birth certificate to ease his concerns.

I can easily imagine the Hollywood version. Harrison Ford is playing Col. Lakin who has escaped and is searching for the one armed man who he saw leaving the Hawaii Department of Health with an arm full of documents. I jest, but Col. Lakin truly is the one we have been waiting for and the one Obama has been dreading. If he spends time in prison he will become a martyr for the cause and it pressure will increase dramatically for Obama to release his documents even from people who do not currently have any real understanding of the current controversy.

I am fairly certain that the Obama administration is feverishly working on some way to put an end to this before it gets a chance to make too many headlines. The last thing they want is for more publicity on this issue especially with the person in jeopardy being a highly respected surgeon and not some sort of publicity hound. So yes this is political, but with Obama’s numbers once again heading for the crapper, the politics may be on our side this time around. This being politics everything is twisted around completey. On one hand Obama supporters are doing all that they can to discredit the good doctor. However these same people are actually hoping the most for extreme leniancy or a way out for Col. Lakin without any punishment.