American's Two Poor Classes - The Lazy Victicrat and the Needy Indigent

The Ignorant Fishermen Blog ^ | 5/9/10 | DJP I.F.

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

We are going broke taking care of the lazy American

[pnh102]

Reminds me of today’s Bible reading in Church... in which Jesus asks the man who was sick for 38 years if he wants to be healed.

[Fantasywriter]

I have a friend who claims to be a Republican. He doesn’t like the tea parties. He says that every one of the tea partiers will expect the government to subsidize their old and infirm parents in a nursing home, when the time comes. He asked me what I was “willing to give up”. I.e.: what government benefit would I give up, in the name of the tea party philosophy.

This was a few months ago. I still haven’t written back because I alternate between fury and despair. If he would admit he was a Democrat, we’d have a starting point. But how do you argue with a person who claims to be a Republican and yet spouts DNC talking points?

[Bryanw92]

In today’s America, the answer would probably be, “Yeah, as long as it don’t stop my disability payments.”

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

Well that’s part of it... the other group... the lazy one followed Jesus around for a free lunch (John 6:25-27)

[ROCKLOBSTER]

He asked me what I was “willing to give up”. I.e.: what government benefit would I give up, in the name of the tea party philosophy.

Tell him you would be happy to give up about 90% of the overpaid/do-nothing bureaucrats and their fat benefits packages...at all levels of government.

That would reduce your tax burden to an unnoticeable trickle.

But how do you argue with a person who claims to be a Republican and yet spouts DNC talking points?

Try to goad him into insulting Obama and start railing about illegal aliens...See what happens.

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

He sounds like a moderate/liberal/suto fiscally conservative “Rep”. These individuals usually are very relative in their appraisal of issues and are emotionally governed instead of fact governed My cousin is one and you sound like me trying to talk to him. These are the people that will be voting in 2010 and 2012 most likely for the Republican presidential candidate... that is why we can not put any trust in any rep victory in 2010 and 2012.

[Bryanw92]

I have similar “independent” friends. They always get to the “Interstate Highways” argument (”you can’t be against limited government and drive on an Interstate highway”).

When they ask me what I’d give up, I tell them the Dept of Education, HUD, and HHS. Then they tell me that those agencies don’t “give” me anything to give up and I tell them “that’s exactly my point. If a department that is designed to help people doesn’t benefit the average Joe, then it is a failure and we need to get rid of it”.

[Fantasywriter]

I think you pretty much nailed it. The biggest problem is that he gets all his news from the MSM. He considers Rush too “shrill” and he called my critique of Obama “hysterical”. In what I hope is a burst of creativity, I am preparing a ‘how well are you informed’ quiz for him. Most of the answers are true or false, or in some cases multiple choice or open ended. When he reads the answers, he’ll probably conclude I cooked the books. But a couple of the items may at least catch his attention.

Btw, I’m not done with your current post/article, but I love the way it starts. I’ve read your stuff before, and have found you to be an excellent writer. I even bookmarked your page!

[Chode]

NO PITY FOR THE LAZY!!!

[Fantasywriter]

Thanks for your reply. Your exchanges mirror the frustration I am experiencing. It seems to me—and this has been shown via psychological testing to be true—that conservatives can think like liberals if we have to, but liberals simply cannot think like, or begin to fathom, the logic and rationality, and most of all the FACTS, that go into conservative thinking. What a brick wall.

I’ve thought about discussing one of Dr. Seuss’s [I give up; how do you spell it] books with my friend. I think it’s called Thadwick the Big Hearted Moose. Thadwick keeps allowing freeloaders to ride along in his antlers, until eventually most of the animals in the forest are up there. They aren’t grateful for the accommodations, either; they’re demanding and fault-finding.

Anyway, once I’ve set it up, I think I’ll ask my friend what he thinks Thadwick should give up. The answer is so obvious, maybe even an “independent” could get it.

[pnh102]

They always get to the “Interstate Highways” argument (”you can’t be against limited government and drive on an Interstate highway”).

Even though the Interstate Highway System was originally justified as a way of helping the US military move around the country because prior to it, there WAS no way for that to happen.

Of course, your friends probably need a reminder that in most states, paying for roads is 100% optional. If one chooses not to drive than he is not on the hook for paying any of the costs of roads because he'd not be paying gas tax, tolls, vehicle registration fees or any number of other costs associated with driving.

[Fantasywriter]

Thanks for your reply. I’m with you one hundred percent on what I’m willing to give up. As to the rest, I don’t think this friend is in favor of illegal immigration, but I do get the impression he believes Obama is doing an okay job. Bear in mind, this guy has no independent source of news and information; he relies solely on the MSM. Fwiw.

[winodog]

Tell him he is right.
His way works great untill they run out of OPM.
The camels back is about to break.

[Fantasywriter]

I agree of course. We can see this, because our thinking is reality based. From what I have seen, a lot of liberals, including liberals who may in fact claim to be Republicans, think in ‘magical’ terms. For them, money doesn’t have to be extorted from overwhelmed and unfairly burdened taxpayers (most of whom, in they’re mind, aren’t ‘paying their fair share’ anyway, and only gripe because they’re greedy); the government has an unlimited pot, and can distribute it at will. So they don’t worry about SS going bankrupt or taxpayers dropping from sheer exhaustion; they just worry about mean spirited tea partiers who don’t want the downtrodden at the bottom of the economic ladder to get a little extra financial lift. Or so it seems to me, and I try to pay attention to this stuff pretty closely.

[Fantasywriter]

they’re = their

[only1percent]

You ought to pay more attention to your friend.

If we're talking about the federal budget, the juice is in three places: old age and disability support, defense and tax expenditures.

Without cuts in those lines, or dramatic increases in tax rates, the country remains hopelessly insolvent even if the federal budget went to zero on health, welfare and education spending for the able-bodied under 65 and slashed the civilian government employee payroll cost by 50% (say, a 25% reduction in force and a 33% cut in pay and benefits for those who remain).

Are you willing to see the retirement age go from 62-68 to 70 to 75? Medicare eligibility to start at 70? A requirement that you have to be indigent before the government starts paying for your parent's end-of-life convalescent home care under Medicaid, rather than just your parent's himself or herself? Willing to give up your mortgage deduction or standard exemption? Willing to see the military go to 4 divisions of land forces and 3 carrier battle groups?

These are serious questions that need serious answers.

[Fantasywriter]

I don’t normally use language like this, but I’m making an exception. Both your comprehension and communication skills are p!ss-poor.

[Finny]

Here's what I think you should write back:

"Dear so-and-so: I alternate between fury and despair. If you would admit you were a Democrat, we’d have a starting point. But how can I argue with a person who claims to be a Republican and yet spouts DNC talking points?"

[Fantasywriter]

That’s actually not a bad idea. Sometimes less is definitely more. Let me think about it. It just may end up happening. ;)