Posted on 03/02/2010 11:43:58 AM PST by patlin
Not that you’re necessarily wrong ... but a Law Journal Article is pretty weak support.
SnakeDoc
*** but the rights of citizenship shall not descend to children whose fathers never resided in the United States.***
bookmark
Sorry. Couldn't make it past this opening.
Legally speaking, treatises are not controlling anywhere or for anyone. Law Journal articles are the legal equivalent of an op-ed. Anyone, particularly any “legal scholar” or professor (no matter whether they’re right or wrong) can write a treatise.
When writing about a legal subject — particularly Constitutional law — treatises and law journal articles are among the lesser sources to cite.
SnakeDoc
I’ve seen this argument (that natural born citizenship requires 2 U.S. citizen parents, or at least a U.S. citizen father) before, and I’ve always had one question - what if we don’t know the identity of someone’s father? Is a child born out of wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother, who does not know the identity of the child’s father, a “natural born citizen” who will grow up to be eligible to serve as President?
An infant is subject to the sovreignty of the head of state of the geographical area in which he is born. The conflicting sovreignty was one of the the foundations of the Natural Born requirement in the US Constitution.
At this point, given the politicization of the courts, you cannot be certain how any of these issues would come down on a given set of facts.
In the current setting, I think in a suit seeking to enject Obama for failing to meet the test because of his failure of the place of birth test, I think the Supreme Court would likely decide that McCain flunks also because he fails the same test for the same reason.
I would grant you that the Obama result would be clearer than McCain although the fact that McCain also has a problem with his citizenship (the statute under which he claims was enacted several years after his birth and is not retroactive) combined with the place of birth problem, makes it likely that McCain would be held ineligible also.
Note that many of the European countries treat offspring to the second generation as citizens. Thus the grandchild of a person born in Sweden is a Swedish citizen eligible for a Swedish passport.
Ping
True. and it looks to me like this is more about the jus sanguis prong of NBC anyway, which is why McCain is an NBC. But, it is hard to explain things to them because they are just on a “language hunt” which they pretty much screw up and get out of context.
Its like One L’s doing their first online research, and they start citing “trespass” remedies out of the Timber and Forestry section of the statutes. They can’t figure out the potential damages because there aren’t any trees involved in their fact pattern.
So they come up with, “Mary Lou is not liable to Sally May in trespass for burning down her house during an unauthorized entry onto the property to have a party because no trees were harmed during or a as a result of the entry. Had trees been damaged, then....”
But these guys are even worse than One l’s ,because even after you point out their boo boos, they don’t believe you.
parsy, who has been thru it with them
and your excuse would be ????
laziness??? Ignorance??? You are a DRONE???
It is well documented in US history as well as in Vattel & all other earlier law philosophers that children born out of wedlock & where the father makes no claim to the child that the children then follow the condition of the mother.
Ridiculous.
McCain was born to American parents on American soil, the Panama Canal Zone. He has more credibility for native born status than a child born to American parents on foreign military bases like Germany.
You need to learn some history. Until Carter turned the Cnal Zone over to Panama, it was American soil, and children born there are as American as Daniel Inoue (Territory of Hawaii) and Ernest Gruening (Territory of Alaska).
Sometimes I read ignorant stuff on FR, but you just took the prize.
>> Its like One L’s doing their first online research, and they start citing “trespass” remedies out of the Timber and Forestry section of the statutes. They can’t figure out the potential damages because there aren’t any trees involved in their fact pattern.
Haha.
I remember those people from law school. They’re the ones that would always enthusiastically raise their hand to answer questions because they’d spent hours in a library to come up with a “brilliant” answer from some random obscure source that nobody’s ever heard of.
If nobody’s ever heard of it ... its probably not the right answer.
SnakeDoc
None of the above. If someone doesn’t bother to check for poor grammar or spelling errors, I stop reading. Especially two in the first seven words.
Yule bee reel glad two no eye ran this story threw my pea sea spell checker bee four eye scent it two ewe last when’s day. It plane lee marks four my revue awl the miss steaks aye dew knot see. It freeze up lodes of thyme. Sew much better than bee fore wee rote with checkers!
That’s a lot of moaning over one extra letter in a word.
There is controversy over whether McCain was born in the Zone or in Panama proper — differing accounts. That’s where the questions arise.
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