Posted on 01/10/2010 12:50:40 AM PST by Wanpeirui
Sorry, my bad. What prophecies are you referring to? In what way does biblical prophecy mandate that the end times are now, as opposed to the many other times and dates which were supposed to be the end in the past? In my life, I have surpassed several dates that many evangelicals thought would be the end. My grandfather used to laugh at me because I was so sure that the end was near, because in the 1930s everyone was sure that prophecy would be fulfilled then, but it didn’t happen. I just remain a skeptic that this is the end. If it happens, hallelujah. But I’m not holding my breath.
I too would fail that test at the moment. I have been much closer to God before, although I have trouble with “love”. Be it loving God, or an earthly helpmate.
Some divine discomfort would probaly do me some good.
But I would rather pray for grace.
Yet, nothing within me believes that the world will soon come to an end, not now, nor in 2012, nor even at some distant date in my own or my children's lifetime
I am convinced that the draws close. Thanks for the convo this morning.
It isn't as easy as pointing to a few verses... anyone who would expect that does not know prophecy, or the nature of prophecy. I could give you incidental verses which point toward what I see, but they are incidental, and therefore unconvincing.
The seventh trumpet is an important time - The Revelation plainly states that the whole of the Prophecy is completed at that point - a very critical distinction, as it necessitates the salvation of the Jews (all at once) by that moment, which means that the salvation of the Jews MUST have taken place before the Rapture...
Tracking backward from that point, one can calculate the things which must yet happen - as ALL of the Prophecy is completed and revealed there.
What needfully MUST take place is that Israel must be established as a nation. This one has already occurred, and is a huge mile marker. the binding of Ephraim and Judah into one (nationally, if not spiritually), the building of the Temple (or at least the opening of the Eastern Gate, and the establishment of the Altar), and the War of Magog (which is separate from Armageddon). These are all precursors necessary for the beast to sit in the Temple, and for Christ to enter into the Temple.
But I look to Prophetic chronology for determination. While there are not "dispensations", there are "times" described in the Bible, and those times are finite and exact.
Among the long calculations, one should look closely at the Jubilee and grand Jubilee, and what they are meant to represent. This is the long calendar - plotting the length of times from the Creation.
The rest require a person to believe that God's Word is ALWAYS true - and that his promises to the twelve tribes continue to hold value (God's Word does not return to Him empty). And furthermore, that the Prophecy is evident to every generation - He has stated that this is His proof that He IS God. In that regard, the Prophecy has been ticking along, steady as a clock, and evident to those who will SEEK it, and believe.
The other chronologies are part and parcel with the TWO Houses of Israel, and are embedded in God's Holy Days. The promises toward all the tribes, and the ten northern tribes (the House of Israel) especially, must necessarily have taken place by now. Ephraim (The House of Israel) was the key for me. Rightly dividing Ephraim from Judah in both the prophecies and in history is paramount to any understanding at all.
There is a pretty specific chronology concerning the return of Ephraim to the House of the Lord. There is a finite and specific end to the "Time of the Gentiles." There is a precise chronology for the return of Israel as a state, and the time that Jerusalem is rebuilt (under Israel).
Major long calculations converge on a grand Jubilee year between 2037 and 2060. That is of course, the outside edge, as the time is to be "cut short". The Prophecy is the proof.
And one needs to read the bible more carefully when using it as support for a position. The footnote to Matthew reads “with a knowledge He could communicate”. He knows, but it is not for us to know.
Sorry, the Great Plague of London in 1665 was the same plague as the Black Death,
They may or may not have been the same disease but they were hundreds of years apart.
and scholars have traditionally associated the rhyme with this event,
It's an urban legend. "Scholars" do not believe this now, if they ever did.
no matter what the revisionists over at Wikipedia might say.
If you actually read the Wikipedia article I linked to, you would see that it is well researched and footnoted and the reasons given there make a lot of sense.
Here is the snopes discussion on the same topic.
The Black Death is identical to the plague that hit London years later—the plague continued on and off for hundreds of years. I’m sorry, but Wikipedia is good for spot checking and for a quick reference, but it is hardly a good authoritative reference on anything—fact-checking things is an important part of my day job, so I know. As for Snopes—you’ve got to be kidding
You believe that footnotes in your Bible are as authoritative as the Word of God itself?
No, but it helps us stupid humans to understand in some small way what God is telling us. Too many times we “have eye that do not see and ears that do not hear”.
I don't believe that you have fact-checked your position on the "Ring Around the Rosie" rhyme.
I used to believe the same thing about that rhyme, but I was open-minded enough to change my mind when I saw that there were much better arguments against the usual theory.
If you are looking for an "authoritative reference", Peter and Iona Opie were acknowledged for decades as the greatest experts on English children's rhymes. (Their work is referenced by both the Wikipedia and snopes articles.) They did not believe that this rhyme had anything to do with either medieval or more recent plagues. (You can read a quotation from one of their books on this page.)
You sure are hung up on this.
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