I think it's too late.

me | 01/04/10 | me

[workerbee]

Well.

I've read this thread twice, trying to digest what I'm seeing here.

I completely understand feeling demoralized and even somewhat hopeless over what has unfolded this past year. I guess I'm not clear on exactly what is it you are trying to accomplish with these posts? Are you saying, everyone shut up and go home? Forget even trying to spread the word and take action? I think you're mistaken if you assume the rest of us here are wearing rose-colored glasses; I'm pretty confident most of us realize the seriousness of the situation. But barring the continuation of our efforts, what is it you propose? Curling up in the fetal position and saying "have it me, Marxists?" Sorry to be snarky, but really... what is your plan/suggestion?

[American Dream 246]

P.S. I’m glad you got the hell out of France and are now one of us!

Thank you so much Zman516 - here is a lot of people like me outthere. :-)

[99Floyd]

Hey, I'm with you lady!

These changes we see happening have been coming on for a long time now, not just since the last election, but most notably since Roe v Wade.

“The Lamp unto our feet”, when we lose or reject this guiding light, goodness, decency, common sense are casualties. Lies become truth, truth becomes lies. Ultimately disaster.

The problem is very deep in our society.
In my simple belief it requires a change in attitude, a change of heart.

Senator Moynihan once was asked this question about abortion, paraphrasing...
Ques: What will become of us?
Ans: He calmly said “oh, we will destroy ourselves”

IMO this gigantic evil opens the door and invites in more evil.

I hope and pray that conditions improve.

[99Floyd]

I believe your tagline is correct! ;)

[American Dream 246]

I did not see anyone here jus wanting to give up at all. My point is to try to alert on a situtation that I am afraid a lot of Americans don;t realize because they never saw that before and cannot accept the idea that it is happening in America. That's all I am trying to do, with my own experience. And hoping that it will help to tell people that they have to wake up NOW...not to go back to bed..we never said that.

This was on American Thinker a while ago:
Anti-Western ideologies have penetrated the very core of our societies at the same time as we are under siege from outside. This is clearly not a sustainable situation and it will need to be resolved if our civilization is going to survive this century. Regardless of who wins this November, the West is in for a bumpy ride. What this election tells us is that America voted for change because America is in the process of changing – not just demographically by becoming less white and more diverse, but as the result of a culture war in which western civilisation is losing out to a far-left agenda which has become mainstream, teaching American children to despise the founding values of their country and hijacking discourse by the minority power-grab of victim-culture. So now we are promised a change in America’s fundamental values. And they really will be changed. Obama has said in terms that he thinks the US constitution is flawed. America’s belief in itself as defending individual liberty, truth and justice on behalf of the free world will now be expiated instead as its original sin. Those who have for the past eight years worked to bring down the America that defends and protects life and liberty are today ecstatic. They have stormed the very citadel on Pennsylvania Avenue itself. Millions of Americans remain lion-hearted, decent, rational and sturdy. They find themselves today abandoned, horrified, deeply apprehensive for the future of their country and the free world. No longer the land of the free and the home of the brave; they must now look elsewhere.

Never forget lessons of history or it will repeat itself:

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;

Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[crusher]

your insightful observations and conclusions are the kind of posting that makes FR “must” reading. My own sentiments exactly, although I go somewhat farther and propose that the not-inevitable outcome is the collapse of the USA and the formation of a new group of nations in North America.

[crusher]

your insightful observations and conclusions are the kind of posting that makes FR “must” reading. My own sentiments exactly, although I go somewhat farther and propose that the not-inevitable outcome is the collapse of the USA and the formation of a new group of nations in North America.

[semantic]

I respectfully disagree. I think we will both hold elections and that they will indeed be fair & balanced.

And conservative candidates will still lose with liberals holding, and perhaps, gaining representation.

There's a lot of tough Internet talk going on in this thread. Good 'ole 'Merican exceptionalism and "can do spirit". Why is it so hard to understand that 52% (and growing) of the People voted for Obama because they like his proposed policies?

Whatever spirit existed that built this country is no longer extant; it's dead, Jim. We need a full reset, but thankfully, it's all lined up and ready to go-to-bat.

Socialism always fails. Always. Not just in the USSR, but here in the USA. It simply cannot produce sufficient economic wealth to sustain itself. Thus, it fails.

Only after the system fails are we going to be able to clear out the most onerous and pervasive corrupting influences of the central state.

Then we'll be right back to where we started 234 years ago.

[semantic]

The plan is to let this version of the USA die. Cop out & prepare; it's not going to be much longer. There is no way this situation can continue.

The fate of nations always comes down to money ... and we don't have any. It's why the fedgov needs to come up with $4 trillion in 2010 alone to roll -over $2T in short-term debt and finance another $2T in deficit spending.

The orgy of looting is out in the wide-open for all to see. Multi-trillions of our money is being diverted to current consumption by favored constituents, rather than being invested in new, wealth producing economic activities.

It cannot continue. Thus, be prepared for the reset.

[American Dream 246]

Here is one thing I am very very optimistic about: the fact that our Founding Fathers and the Constitution are back a lot in the conversation. I don't think I've heard so much of that before the elections. So may be, if we don't loose too much time, may be this whole nightmare will have been useful to go back to our true principles. Let's pray together to get back the America of our founding Fathers and Our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

America The Beautiful

[chimera]

There are two crucial elements of our system that are being eroded. One is the assumption of honest elections. One need only look at recent events in the MN Senate election and the WA state Governor contest (in 2004) for evidence that such is not the case. The other is the fallback in the event of dishonest elections, an honest and fair judicial process. Again, review of those disputed elections (and other cases) shows that we don't have this anymore, either.

So where do you go for honest and fair representative government when the elections are rigged? Where do you go for justice when the courts are crooked? Where do you go for protection when the police are criminals or under the control of dishonest thugs? Those are the traditional sanctuaries that peaceful and honest people have sought in dark times. When those are lacking, there isn't much alternative to chaos in the streets.

[Noumenon]

Your estiamte is right on the money. 0bama is nothing more than a meat puppet deployed in the serviceof another Master. Some folks refoer to the Dark Forces. As far as I can tell - which may not be that far, after all - it's just human evil come to the fore. Plain, naked smirking evil, enabled by 21st century technology and a long pedigree of very bad ideas.

I say as much in my Fourth of July 2009 Tea Party Speech.

Lately, I've bee ntaking a serious run at Caroll Quigley's Tragedy and Hope.

Reading Quigley leaves one with the impression that the elites of this world are now going all-in in an attempt to reduce much of the population of the world to serfdom, with them ruling from atop of the heap of rubble and corpses that will be the natural consequence of such an attempt. They'd be perfectly happy to rule in hell as long as they think that they could get away with it and be more secure in doing so.

Unless we awaken in sufficient numbers to put paid to them all, that is.

They crave stability and power. Even if it is at the hand of the rule of tyrants and the stability is the stability of the grave for most of the rest of us. And if that seems a little extreme, ask yourself this: who would presume to such a grotesquery as putting a Mao 'ornament' on their 'holiday tree' - why, it's our Marxist meat puppet of a president, that's who.

[American Dream 246]

So where do you go for honest and fair representative government when the elections are rigged? Where do you go for justice when the courts are crooked? Where do you go for protection when the police are criminals or under the control of dishonest thugs? Those are the traditional sanctuaries that peaceful and honest people have sought in dark times. When those are lacking, there isn't much alternative to chaos in the streets.

This is exactly my point - when the whole country will have changed in mentality - dishonesty - as you said: rigged elections - dependant welfare crowd and rotten politicians - that is exactly when it will be too late to regain control with honest attitudes like voting and teapartying. That's exactly the danger we are facing. I just saw on Fox an ad for the census...well, if you are not scared yet about the "fairness" for the elctions...you are really optimistics!

[Noumenon]

Yes, but's also look beyond the issue of 'free and fair' elections. something more fundamental has been under attack, and quite successfully. And that's the notion of 'trust'. Trust - faith in the sanctity of contracts, the rule of law before which all are equal - in fact, the basic tenets as set forth in our constitution and bill of Rights - is what has forged the great American Experiment in self-government. It is the glue that held together the many disparate interests and cultures that have made America - up until now.

That trust has been made a mockery by the (I believe) deliberate ignorance of fraudsters like Berniw Madoff and many, many others who were allowed to persist until the scope of their fraud had become truly enormous. It's as if they were allowed to maximize the damage they would do - not to other peoples' bank accounts, but to their fundamental sense of trust and security.

Remember:

1. Demoraliztion.
2. Destabilization.
3. 'Normalization'.

So much easier to rule over a completely demoralized and enslaved populace.

[Noumenon]

Dear American Dream 246 - I take everything you say very seriously. And yes, a slim majority of us are looking for the Nanny State to take care of us, to make all of our fears and insecurities go away. They don't understand that is the road to servitude and WORSE! But you must also remember that 234 years ago, approximately one third of the people in the American colonies were Royalists. Roughly another third of the population could have cared less. The first American Revolution was fought by never morethan 3% of the population at any one time, and they were supported by that remaining third who were fed up with British tyranny.

I think that we can field more than that original 3%. I think that many of those who chose 0bama are beginning to understand the devil's bargain they've made - and are now regretting it. I think that we can in fact fight and win a Second American Revolution and win. That vistory will come at a terrible price, and there is no guarantee that we will win, or that the country we reconstruct will resemble exactly the one our Founders envisioned. But it will be a start.

Like my father before me, I am a rifleman and a patriot. I am not alone.

[Noumenon]

One of your countrymen, Jean-Francois Revel had this to say about the Left and its deliberate corruption of Western societies:

“The great misfortune of the twentieth Century is to have been the one in which the ideal of liberty was harnessed to the service of tyranny, the ideal of equality to the service of privilege, and all the aspirations and social forces included under the label of the "Left" enrolled in the service of impoverishment and enslavement. This immense imposture has falsified most of this century, partly through the faults of some of its greatest intellectuals. It has corrupted the language and action of politics down to tiny details of vocabulary, it has inverted the sense of morality and enthroned falsehood in the very center of human thought.”  

The Flight From Truth: The Reign of Deceit in the Age of Information
1991, Random House Jean Francois-Revel

Revel got it right. But we're not done and we're not finished. War is coming. Here. Soon.

[American Dream 246]

Thanks Noumenon and you One of your countrymen, Jean-Francois Revel had this to say about the Left and its deliberate corruption of Western societies:

I just wish history would repeat itself for the goods things...not only for the bad one. And yes, hard to understand that these suppositely "intellectuals" managed to completely overwhelmed "common sense" people. Really hard to understand but it happened all over the world. Like here...how many times did I hear: Oh that's so great, we will finally have a "intelligent - or intellectual" president..how STUPID can these people be.

[chimera]

I agree that the erosion and attacks have gone deeper than the somewhat symptomatic effects we tend to focus on (my post included). It is a systemic pathology at work that threatens implosion and ruin as a result of internal collapse. I have noted in other posts my observations of the breakdown of the social contract and trust in any number of areas of American society as we see it today (the acceptance and normalization of decadence and debauchery in the Clinton years, the embrace of socialism in the election of Obama, globalization, marginalization and eventual destruction of the underpinnings of political, social and familial stability, etc.).

I have often seen FReepers post sentiments like "we'll get through this", or, "we've faced deadlier enemies before, Stalin, Hitler, etc.". Those, by and large, were external threats. But now, for the first time in the modern era (or perhaps ever), the enemies of the Western traditions of individual liberty, self-reliance, and the function of government as a securer of individual rights as opposed to a grantor of them, are within. That so many do not even recognize the threat, much less being motivated to oppose it, makes me fear for the worst.

[Noumenon]

That so many do not even recognize the threat, much less being motivated to oppose it, makes me fear for the worst.

There's the crux of the matter. It's a form of denial, really. No one wants to think the unthinkable - that we're just that close to slavery and servitude (or worse); that our once proud Republic could come to resemble something like the the Siege of Sarajevo almost overnight; that the gun, the gulag and the mass grave beckon at the behest of our new masters. Yet our survival - from that of our nation right down to our individual survival depends upon doing precisely that.

Much of what i've tried to to accomplish is to get folks to think - and to consider the unthinkable. The lessons of history and the foibles of human nature are all out there, plain to see for anyone who cares to look. Look: I'm no genius, I'm no scholar, I'm no hero, I'm no leader. I'm the guy next door who sees his neighbors house is on fire and I'm trying to get their attention. I can help put it out, but I can't do the whole job myself, especially if the neighbor won't listen for some reason.

There's a terrible conflict coming down the pike, a conflict that we can neither vote nor talk our way out of.

Can I change history? I dont' know. But one of the lessons of history is that the entire course fo the world has often times hinged on one man's decision and willingness to act.

Am I willing to fight for what I believe in? Absolutely. History also teaches us that there are fates worse than physical death. I will not yield to them. Better to die on your feet than cowering in submission.

These and many other dreadful questions are about to become starkly real to ALL of us.

[reasonisfaith]

Isn’t it a wee bit early to give up yet?