Pending Litigation: Hawaii Confirms That Obama’s Vital Records Have Been Amended.

naturalborncitizen ^ | 9/21/2009 | rxsid

[American Constitutionalist]

Imagine that, Hawaii officials being check mated by their own laws.

[rxsid]

"it is POSSIBLE that he could be an NBC if born in Kenya and she wasn’t married since that would bestow US citizenship."

That bestowed citizenship would have been via statue. Are you, therefore, arguing that someone can "obtain" Natural Born Citizenship via statue?

[BP2]

Pending Litigation: Hawaii Confirms That Obama’s Vital Records Have Been Amended.

Okay, if the records have DEFINITELY been Amended, this may be a HUGE problem for Obama and the credibility of his Certification of Live Birth (an abbreviated abstract Certificate)!

Such an amendment or alteration must be shown, as reflected in:
- various sections of HRS §338 (14-21)
- HRS §578 (exemptions due to sealed records of Adoption - a distinct possibility for Obama ...)
- Hawaii Att. Gen. Op. 84-14 – removed from state website*; AND
- Dept of Health procedural manual, Vital Statistics, Registration & Records, Chapter 117, Administrative Rules – ALSO removed from state website*

     * despite extensive searching, these state references are not available on the Hawaii .gov websites. If YOU have a copy, please FReepmail me

Here is an example of a Certificate of Live Birth denoting an Alteration (Amendment) of the original birth record:

Here is an example of an AMENDED Certification of Live Birth (first used in Nov 2001):

NOTE: even though this is a Certification of Live Birth, an AMENDMENT is reflected at the bottom (bottom red arrow).

If Obama’s birth certificate records have been Amended, his Certification of Live Birth should identify that his records have been Amended —
it does NOT!

[danamco]

Requirement: Born on US soil???

[rxsid]

"Requirement: Born on US soil???"

Even that isn't enough. Why? Anchor baby's (born on US soil) "obtain" their citizenship via statue. Can a "Natural" Born Citizen be "made" or "obtained" via statue? IMO, that's contrary to the whole notion of NBC.

[Lmo56]

The British Nationality Act DOES NOT make him a British citizen. Can you just go read all the law on the matter instead of listening to Donofrio.

***

I do my OWN research - I do NOT “listen to Donofrio” ...

Why don’t YOU read the ACT ???

FIRST - you gotta Read Part II, Section 5:

British Nationality Act of 1948:

5.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth:

Provided that if the father of such a person is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent only, that person shall not be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by virtue of this section unless—

(a) that person is born or his father was born in a protectorate, protected state, mandated territory or trust territory or any place in a foreign country where by treaty, capitulation, grant, usage, sufferance, or other lawful means, His Majesty then has or had jurisdiction over British subjects; or

(b) that person’s birth having occurred in a place in a foreign country other than a place such as is mentioned in the last foregoing paragraph, the birth is registered at a United Kingdom consulate within one year of its occurrence, or, with the permission of the Secretary of State, later; or

(c) that person’s father is, at the time of the birth, in Crown service under His Majesty’s government in the United Kingdom; or

(d) that person is born in any country mentioned in subsection (3) of section one of this Act in which a citizenship law has then taken effect and does not become a citizen thereof on birth.

---

ONLY the first paragraph directly applies to Obama.

The second paragraph’s “a” through “d” disqualifiers apply ONLY IF Obama’s father was a British Citizen BY DESCENT ONLY.

---

Now, we look to Obama’s Father’s status:

Under Part I, Section 1:

1.—(1) Every person who under this Act is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or who under any enactment for the time being in force in any country mentioned in subsection (3) of this section is a citizen of that country shall by virtue of that citizenship have the status of a British subject.

---

Obama’s father was a citizen by virtue of Part 1, Section 1. He was born in Kenya - a British colony and/or protectorate.

Obama is a citizen by descent by virtue of Part II. Section 5, paragraph 1.

The ONLY way Obama WOULD NOT be a citizen by descent would be if his father WAS a citizen by descent (Part II, Section 5, paragraph 2 qualifiers “a”-”d”).

Obama’s father WAS NOT a citizen by descent; ergo Obama IS a citizen by descent.

[stockpirate]

If born in Kenya he is not a NBC.

[Vendome]

just like my birt certificate.

Amended

[danamco]

Yeah, and how has that discovery worked so far in every case...NONE....

Is the Carter case over, hmmmm???

[rxsid]

Most definitely true.

[Lmo56]

So, he would STILL be a dual national AND NOT an NBC ...
Doesn’t matter. His father would still not have been a US citizen, which is what matters. Rummy Chick has looked into the British law at the time, and a legal marriage does matter. But it’s complicated, since much of the British empire did allow polygamy, their nationality laws allowed for that, so the place of marriage and the legal domicile of the British subject parent seem to matter as to British nationality at birth.

“Dual Citizenhip” is something of a Red Herring, it’s the nationality status of the parents, plural, that counts.

***

We are kinda splitting hairs here - if you read my other posts, you will see that I am in agreement with you.

The location AND the parents citizenship BOTH determine what a person’s citizenship status is ...

My contention is that an NBC satisfies BOTH requirements and that the Founding Fathers’ definition of NBC was the same.

I point out that, per the 14th Amendment and the British Nationality Act of 1948, Obama is a dual national and NOT an NBC - since a dual national DOES NOT owe one allegiance to one country.

This exactly fits the definition that I believe the Founding Fathers had ...

NBC = born under United States jurisdiction of citizen parents.

Citizen = born under United States jurisdiction to any type of parents or naturalized by statute.

[danamco]

Sis, I think you are out of order, or maybe your hormones!!!

Be careful not to be stamped as fifth brigade!!!

[danamco]

Meant to say; One requirement....!!!

[Lmo56]

Can a “Natural” Born Citizen be “made” or “obtained” via statue?

***

In a word - NO !!!

The ONLY way to definitively define NBC is by

1. An interpretation by SCOTUS of the term, as CURRENTLY written in the Constitution.

or:

2. By Constitutional amendment, EXACTLY stating what an NBC is.

Congress CANNOT define the term by statute.

What the Hawaii birth records person said about Obama being confirmed as an NBC is a bunch of hooey - since NO ONE knows what it is (at this time).

However, historically, the Founding Fathers (almost to a certainty) meant that an NBC was born under United States jurisdiction to two citizen parents.

This fits into English Common Law, upon which our law was derived.

[mojitojoe]

It’s obvious to me that the term Natural Born Citizen was meant to hold the President to a higher standard. It is used nowhere else. I think they wanted to make certain the President had no divided loyalties. It is clear from his books, in his own words, that he does have divided loyalties. The entire book is about his black half and even titled as such. It’s almost as if he was abandoned by him, so all of the negativity is directed toward whites. I assume you have read the book. Can you dispute that he clearly has divided loyalties?

[Lmo56]

Citizen? Okay, but not NBC.

***

Correct.

[mojitojoe]

Good point.

[mojitojoe]

Medical records! He had to have those to enter school to prove childhood vaccinations. Does he have a Smallpox vaccination scar?
Also, his medical records from his doctor now that I’m sure have been scrubbed and re-done.

[MHGinTN]

The Senate Judiciary Committee under Leahy seems to agree that to be natural born requires two Ameerican citizen parents and being born on U.S. soil. When Leahy’s committee—which Barry Soetoro sat on as a Senate member/committee member—held hearings on McCain’s natural born citizen status, there was no question of his parents not being U.S. citizens, so the hearings were held to established the adde3d requirement of born on U.S. soil. The anti-birthers try to twist the hearings into something else because the anti-birthers are anti-american, seeking to legitimize anchor babies as NBC eligible. If having two American citizen parents was all that were required, there would have been no hearing and McCain’s mother woul dnot have had to testify in affidavit tot he committee. The non-binding resoultion sense of the Senate included the parentage citizenship in their declaration, and Barry Soetoro, aka Barry Obama, aka Barack Obama signed onto the standard endorsed by the resolution. BArry could not meet the standards, but he endorse them. ... And the pirate John Roberts administered the Oathof Office to the lying bastard anyway, twice! No wonder the sevile SCOTUS deosn’t want to take a case questioning the affirmative action liar’s eligibility! Roberts pissed on his own oath and cannot now hide it if he has to address the Constitutional meaning of Natural Born Citizen.

[Vendome]

Typhoid Barry