Posted on 12/21/2008 8:08:35 AM PST by andrew roman
With respect, you must be in the wrong thread. The central point here is what is sometimes needed to prevent a Great Depression, not whether FDR policies prolonged or shortened one.
And a post about a professorial analysis is always entertaining. Give me 100 professors and I will give you 100 differnt opinions that have more to do with ideology and career sustainment and/or advancement than with actual academic rigor.
Thanks.
Even post war Germany, Italy didn’t go commie.
Even in Russia in the ‘30 Communism was struggling.
The idea of a few thousand commie lovers in Manhattan and LA taking over the US in the ‘30 is boob bait.
The actions done the last few months, by Bush, Paulson, Congress are fueling a Depression.
Yeah,,,take over business and financial centers, throw a third of the population out of work, Take over entertainment industries and spew out a flood of communist subtext themed films that seem to always feature a people’s uprising and a collective effort. They were closer than you give them credit for.
The same cabal gave us the Fed, the Income tax,,and changed the basic nature of our country.
And as a final “how do you do”,, even a cursory look at the russian revolution is the story of an ideological communist elite taking over a vast nation by sucessfully capturing the two cities that were the biggest national seats of power in Russia.
Their civil war ultimately cemented it.
Yes,, a few *hundred* thousand commies, well-placed were an outright danger to freedom in the USA.
In fact, a very strong case can be made that in 2008, they just won the battle to conquer us which they started in the 1930s.
ROTFL! How true if not comical.
And explain how Germany didn’t go commie? I know im an amateur, but i get confused and just see a socialist, totalitarian, individuality crushing, private property confiscating (ever hear of the jews property being confiscated?), mass-murdering, war-mongering state, run by a personality cult “dear leader”.
If you look in broad strokes, Nazi Germany was no different than Mao, Stalin, Castro, Kim Jong-il, etc. There’s always this strange cult i hear that likes to cast Hitler as anti-communist.
The differences were at best,,academic.
According to the the definition in “None dare call it conspiracy”, Hitler fits neatly in the definition of communist.
The Communist consider themselves as a intermediary state on the road to the ultimate destination, socialism.
Sort of like the old quip about a thousand roads lead to Rome, so to socialism.
There is not one, even communist, historian that thought the US in the ‘30s was even near any state that would allow the creation of a Communist state.
I have no idea where, or who, said or augured that FDR saved us from Communism.
It’s just unthinking, repeated, bunk.
I don’t know why I can’t write history, so if anything, I would say that FDR saved the US from capitalism, in as much he gave birth to ever more classical market socialist institutions, amongst other effects.
Is there anyone here that can reasonably argue that the US hasn’t, steadily, become more of a socialist nation, in general though institutions and laws, over time? In general, on average?
What I was getting at was that Germany was a very sick state, politically and culturally, with a much stronger communist ...er..movement and supporters and such.
No logistics, movements, numbers of supporters or cultural or economic sickness existed in any degree as in Germany.
So, where Cadillac loving, booze drinking, gun owning money loving Americas were all supposed to rush to communal living and calling each other command idea came from, I have no idea.
I don’t even remember a great against communist struggle in America, pre war. Not even a minor struggle. Why? Because physically commies were a handful of Jewish nutballs, cranks, Brit loving gays who couldn’t organize a post office robbery.
Excellant post with good historical basis and analysis.
“The actions done the last few months, by Bush, Paulson, Congress are fueling a Depression.”
Yes and doing nothing about the credit freeze which would cut off operating and expansion funds to millions of companies leading to layoffs pushing 25% or more unemployment would certainly do a lot to stave off a depression.
Tell me that is not what you are saying? Because if it is, you need to revisit the way companies in the United States operate. They don’t pay all salaries, operating costs and expansion costs with profit. You should revisit and understand the corporate credit system to realize how silly your post is.
Just ask any roofer how he pays $6000 upfront costs for a roof before ever seeing a check from a customer. He runs a line of credit with suppliers, that’s how. It works the same for all businesses, large and small, just different types of creditors.
This is a few-month old thread of a booklet written back in 1938 by a conservative about the New Deal. VERY interesting and - yes, scary - seeing who just got elected in 2008. (With the latest help from President Bush, although I think he’s been hoonswoggled by the Dems.)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/929392/posts
THE REVOLUTION WAS, By Garet Garrett (written in 1938)
Some excerpts:
There are those who still think they are holding the pass against a revolution that may be coming up the road. But they are gazing in the wrong direction. The revolution is behind them. It went by in the Night of Depression, singing songs to freedom.
There are those who have never ceased to say very earnestly, “Something is going to happen to the American form of government if we don’t watch out.” These were the innocent disarmers. Their trust was in words. They had forgotten their Aristotle. More than 2,000 years ago he wrote of what can happen within the form, when “one thing takes the place of another, so that the ancient laws will remain, while the power will be in the hands of those who have brought about revolution in the state.”
..... The test came in the first one hundred days.
.... Having passed this crisis, the New Deal went on from one problem to another, taking them in the proper order, according to revolutionary technic; and if the handling of one was inconsistent with the handling of another, even to the point of nullity, that was blunder in reverse. The effect was to keep people excited about one thing at a time, and divided, while steadily through all the uproar of outrage and confusion a certain end, held constantly in view, was pursued by main intention.
.... Until it was too late few understood one like Julius C. Smith, of the American Bar Association, saying: “Is there any labor leader, any businessman, any lawyer or any other citizen of America so blind that he cannot see that this country is drifting at an accelerated pace into administrative absolutism similar to that which prevailed in the governments of antiquity, the governments of the Middle Ages, and in the great totalitarian governments of today? Make no mistake about it. Even as Mussolini and Hitler rose to absolute power under the forms of law... so may administrative absolutism be fastened upon this country within the Constitution and within the forms of law.”
.....There it is and there it will remain until, if ever, it shall be reconquered. Certainly government will never surrenders without a struggle.
New tagline. Am I living in “Alice in Wonderland”?
hmmm?
nevermind
Stupidest quote of the year. Possibly the decade or the century.
I think perhaps the identity of the Great Whore who sits on many waters in John's apocalyptic vision is close to being revealed, and if my hunch is right we won't like what we will see even one little bit. I just hope the pre-tribbers are right, and if so I won't be around here when that happens.
I aware of that.
And who allowed commercial banks to have 12 to one, up to 40 to one capitalization?
Who did that?
Who approved AIG holding 2 plus trillion dollars in CDO’s?
Knowing that GW Bush pushed, supported market distorting home loans, CRA, Fannie/Freddie who gave the good faith and credit to these notes? Free Market Bush? ( And don’t give me the self esteem, we tried excuse of a few GOP, timidly, bringing Fran/Fred CRA risk possibilities up. They failed.)
Why didn’t these guys isolate by law the sub prime notes, and tell any financial institution that since Paulson and the Treasury believe that the majority will be good, over time, carry them in a special account on you books and thus your mark to market accounting won’t make you uncapitalized over night? This would of cost us zero. Then the free market, over time, could of priced these notes.
That might of well kept Lehman, Merrill in business and servicing the commercial needs of their customers.
All those banks, all their customers would of been reassured.
Instead in weeks they all disappeared. HOW confidence building was that? What were small and medium size business, with long relationships with banks and officers, where they supposed to go?
Did all that increase confidence? No.
Did the destruction, in days of the largest commercial and regular banks increase liquidity? NO?
Is there any survey you are aware of that has shown increase confidence this last month or so? I am not aware of any at all. Not one.
Does GW Bush’s near authoritarian disbursement of funds to the little Detroit 3 increse confidence in law and stability coming out of Washington? Especially now that we have an near neigh new age socialist coming to power in a Democrat Congress? Is that increasing confidences? Spending? Liquidity?
Tell me, if you had great wealth, or even say a half million in cash, where would you invest it now in some enterprise that needs a few years to come to fruition?
Investors and spenders of even the most modest, are holding on to their money and capital because our fate is in a handful of people hands that no one knows whether they are going to go more free(ish) enterprise or more socialist to ‘save us’.
When you have the supposed premiere icon of free markets, the head of the GOP saying he’s dumping capitalism, as presently understood, for experimental and theoretical socialism, any thing goes. People are not going to risk take, or spend in that environment.
When you have the Paulson ask for 700 billion for mortgages, publicly, and a week later after he gets the check, dump the reason, basically publicly either lie, or say I don’t know what I am doing, does that increase spending, investment, confidence?
And now there is world wide discussion of the collapse of the dollar due to the printing press. How are we, a nation very dependent upon imported capital, that will not be invested if the dollar decreases in value.. how are we supposed to have liquidity?
Great. Just freaking great. And this is the ‘cure’.
We will see.
He’s a globalist, not a patriot. This statement did not surprise me.
Just try asking the thousands of U.S. Military living and serving overseas how far your "President Bush is no patriot" gets ya.
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