The Universe

[ Where are you going with this? / Whats at stake? ]

What IF HELL were relegating a human to remain flesh for eternity.. and thats what Hell was.. You know a virtual slave to a human body.. albeit a healthy body that don't get sick or age.. Slavery... like NOW.. for eternity..

For every moment we(spirits) vs. (physical creatures) must feed, water, bathe, educate, entertain, provide air, groom, clothe, breed, step and fetch, provide for whims and a hundred other things for the physical body.. Without a human body to attend a spirit would be virtually FREED..

Sure a spiritual "body" of some sort "may" be needed but that is not for sure.. It could be possible to not need a physical "conduit".. or even possible to be able to create one when needed.. at will.. like Jesus after resurrection or Angels in the Bible.. A whole range of possibilities might present themselves in the future.. With no physical body "WE" would not need food, air, heat or coolness, gender, bathing, grooming, and many or all the things mentioned above.. What IF the earth in the future would be HELL.. or a kind of penal colony.. and spiritual FREEDOM would be lost.. And the inmates having loved being flesh on earth, would remain being flesh.. for eternity.. Serving the body.. Then the earth might be deemed a "lake of fire".. or the experience of constant servitude when comparared to what was LOST.. (freedom in the spirit).. Not only freedom FROM the body but freedom in many other ways...

The earth being a penal colony but to "others" the rest of the Universe WAS OPENED UP.. there might even be levels of servitude to human bodies.. first to your own body and next in various degrees to other bodies.. servitude upon servitude in levels of slavery.. like NOW.. Work/effort in cascading levels of an economy of servitude.. The personal servitude, servitude of others, servitude of groups, levels of servitude not possible now..

This could seem like a lake of fire in comparison to freedom from bodily service.. Actually what some got freedom from would be the real story.. Where some hated servicing others and other loved being of service to others.. For that is what LOVE is.. sacrifice.. HELL could be forced sacrifice or service.. An eternity of sacrifice.. to those that required the sacrifice of others but hateing giving it themselves.. On the otherhand it could get much "worse" than this.. Levels of service could generate a whole complex series of other scenarios..

A lake of fire being a mere metaphor could take a definite turn for the worse.. It could be an intellectual or spiritual lake of fire.. Where no actual lake of fire exists but a mental lake of fire does..

The real story is escape from all this.. thats is what I'm talking about.. and what could be at stake.. My Yarn or a version of it could be REAL.. according to Jesus.. Because his words speak of a dividing of spiritual and fleshly things..

Thank you so much for sharing your insights!

In my reading of the scriptures I have yet to find anything that indicates either way and that is an area that science has yet to explore.

"Methodological naturalism" keeps all things supernatural "off the table" of most disciplines of science. Mathematics (which includes Information Theory) however deals in universals and theories which often cannot be observed in nature or put to a laboratory test. Likewise some areas of Physics, a science but with extraordinary emphasis on math, are open to such theories.

Nevertheless, the terms - nephesh, neshama and ruach - and of course ruach Elohim - are all used in Scripture. All are introduced in Genesis, i.e. all are part of God's revelation of Creation.

Moreover, the Hebrew terms are rather apparent in Romans 8 which was probably written in Greek. Paul was a Jewish scholar so that shouldn't be surprising - but the important part is that Paul preaches exactly what he learned directly from Christ which corresponds to those teachings in the Torah, also from God.

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called [me] by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. – Galatians 1:11-19

And the indwelling Spirit confirms to me that He is the Author of Scripture, including of course Genesis, Corinthians, John and Romans 8 which I quote below.

I raised a few points in my brief introduction of the Hebrew terms, but there are other things which some might find interesting.

Among these is the term "ruach Elohim" which means the Holy Spirit. But notice that "Elohim" is plural. The singular form is "El" as in "El Shaddai." "Elohim" is used in Genesis 1:1 and "ruach Elohim" is used in Genesis 1:2.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. - Genesis 1:1-2

Compare that to Romans 8 which declares the Trinity: Spirit, Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ:

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:9

Again confirming that God is Spirit:

God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth. - John 4:24

The term "neshama" is unique to Adamic man. It corresponds to this passage where the breath of God made Adam a "living soul."

And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. - Genesis 2:7

Again, we can compare that to Corinthians:

So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. – I Corinthians 15:42-45

The term "nephesh" is used in the following passage for things having life:

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. - Genesis 1:20

This is one area where math and science could provide some insight. betty boop has written a marvelous essay on the subject here.

Finally, the term "ruach" is used throughout the Old Testament to mean "spirit" or "soul" - but the emphasis from Jewish mysticism is on willfulness and more specifically choosing between being God-minded or earthy-minded. And that is the underlying theme of Romans, chapter 8.

Where are you going with this? Whats at stake?

There's nothing really at "stake" for a Christian to investigate the Hebrew word concepts in Scripture. Obviously things were lost in translation but everything necessary for a Christian was preserved according to God's will.

Here is another example of something lost in translation - in this case, the Name of God “The Rock” which was specially announced in the Song of Moses.

First the announcement:

Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. [He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he. – Deu 32:1-4

And then how the Name was lost in translation:

English from Hebrew (Masoretic)

[He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he.

tsuwr po`al tamiym derek mishpat 'el 'emuwnah `evel tsaddiyq yashar

English from the Greek (Septuagint)

As for God, His works are true, and all His ways are justice. God is faithful and there is no unrighteousness in Him; just and holy is the Lord.

English from Latin (Vulgate)

The works of God are perfect, and all his ways are judgments: God is faithful and without any iniquity, he is just and right.

Dei perfecta sunt opera et omnes viae eius iudicia Deus fidelis et absque ulla iniquitate iustus et rectus

Even though the announced Name "The Rock" was lost in the Greek and spread from there to the Latin, that God is “The Rock” was preserved in the Hebrew both in Scripture and in tradition (e.g. “Rock of Ages” (Ma’oz Tzur) is the favorite Hanukkah Song) and in the New Testament here:

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. – 1 Cor 10:1-4

Nevertheless, I doubt that a lack of curiosity about such things is spiritually perilous - more like missing an opportunity for further illumination and treasure.

To God be the glory!

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