Posted on 02/26/2006 9:12:24 PM PST by ibme
How can you tell it was a he, Bones?
Very true, the formation of a planet with conditions right for life (let alone intelligent life) is quite a remote happenstance.
Then again, all the billions of planets which don't have conditions right for life don't have beings there to ponder the odds of their planet's conditions developing...any intelligent life that does evolve on an 'acceptable' planet and adapts to its environment would be inclined to think their own planet was perfectly made for them...
(This doesn't in my mind eliminate the wonders of God; it's just a philosophical point to ponder...)
I wonder what that would be like...Here we go with inclinations again. Tree falls in the forest, etc.
God knew what He was doing when He made the universe. I'm just inclined to believe that if He had a plan that didn't involve some apparent 'chance' happenstance, then why bother with the billions of stars that life can't live near...
It all just makes me more impressed with God's power (a few billion extra stars is a trivial deed for Him). He's probably just shaking His head at how silly and inconsequential the whole debate really is; compared to the real miracle that there's any existence at all here to ponder. (Pardon my musings - too much caffeine this morning)
Dude, I'm the archiver (archivist?)...
The problem with this calculation is that there are too many unknowns. How many planets exist, not just in this galaxy, but in the entire universe with liquid cores? How many of these have a magnetic field? If the reason we have the magnetic field we do is the liquid core, then most other planets with liquid cores will have a magnetic field. How many planets that have liquid cores and magnet fields are also in the 'life zone' for the particular star they orbit? How many of these have atmospheres that will support life? How many of these have a companion planet? How necessary is having a companion planet? How many different forms of life are there?
Without at least having some idea of the numbers associated with the questions listed above any supposition that our position in the universe in privileged can only be in error. This is simply because without knowing those particular numbers the probability of some planet filling our niche can be as close to 1 as it can be to 0. As long as a single planet in the universe happens to have conditions necessary to support life, then there we are.
All the conditions you have listed would be incidental to the existence of life. In other words, wherever life is found then those conditions obviously must support life. Only if we view our existence after the fact and give it precedence can it be viewed as 'special'.
These are interesting questions, questions far more open to question than that of evolution and more open to debate.
You didn't really answer my question though which was something about random selection. Any selection, whether performed by humans or simply the state of the environment is not random. Mutations, frequently viewed as random, are themselves only semi-random in the sense that some areas of the genome are more prone to mutations than other areas. The idea that biological evolution is somehow random is incorrect.
If you want to discuss evolution I would be happy to do so. If you want to discuss abiogenesis I would be happy to do so. Even if you want to discuss the probability of human existence in the larger sense I would be happy to do so.
Precisely.
If you want to discuss evolution I would be happy to do so. If you want to discuss abiogenesis I would be happy to do so. Even if you want to discuss the probability of human existence in the larger sense I would be happy to do so.
And no doubt do it well, I see by your links and posts. My field is in keeping things still, so I have to live in a conundrum of perpetual motion. Yet, mindful that we are prone to superstitious learning, I believe that the more we learn about science, the more we learn about Creation.
Only if we view our existence after the fact and give it precedence can it be viewed as 'special'.
Guilty as charged, made in the image of God. And in a way, that goes for all life forms, known and unknown. Now that is way off thread. (Except sheep of course, I come from a line of cattlemen.) I just happen to see God in science. Many a physicist might never venture down an asymptotic path that an engineer would pursue, expecting the end to be close enough. Perhaps that is my astochastic view. Mathmatically, in an infinite universe, the special nature of our niche is incalculable, I will agree, but having come to where we are, to know how very special is our particular time and condition of existence must make even an existentialist feel fortunate.
Sorry if I did not answer your question about random selection. Perhaps I cannot.
Your verses make no point. The opportunity to be apart of Gods Holy Plan, so that His ultimate Glory is revealed, is an honor. And for those children that are swept out of this world of sin and death, Good for them! For the parents that can't see Gods hand as the Masters Hand in a painting that isn't finished yet, I'm sorry to them! I've never shed a tear for one life lost amongst me, but for those that cry in vain! Since a young girl, I remember thinking, why do we cry for those that die? They are only going through a stage in life. Before I even knew of the Bible, death to me, meant peace, and end to a life that was well lived, for as long as it could be lived.
To me death isn't an act of "unlove", it's just passing from one stage in our life to that which God would take us to next. We aren't to idol our livelihood on this earth, it is but a blink in time to our Lord and Creator. We are here long enough to serve a purpose, then He takes us, chapter open and closed. Simple as that to me.
Again, I've always thought death was a normal thing, and not to be thought of in disdain or as punishment. I notice, no one cries or tries to blame God of child birth. If death is soo bad, how much worse is it to have to bring a life into this world, which means dieing to self, and spending the next 20 years absorbing this other life. The woman goes through extreme bodily changes, extreme pains in giving birth, then the turmoil of raising an adult from scratch. Never having done so before in their life, parents are thrown a crying, pooping, breathing, sensitive, learning child.... to me,, this is a bigger shock to the human psyche then death. Death is just so quick and fleeting,, it hit's us so fast are response is to be angry!
But why?
And You know, so what if He asked Abraham to give up that child, God gave him Isaac to begin with. Abraham didn't own that baby, we are all Gods children, and we are all accountable to the Lords plans. Abraham showed that he didn't value human life over spiritual life, that's ultimate God/man relationship and a super understanding of Unconditional love after Gods own heart! God showed us that example with Christ, and also with Lazarus... many times did He allow His beloved followers/children Die... or tempt to die, only to prove a point.
Sorry, I know this isn't a Christian thread... but these posts are always good for interesting and quaintly intelligent conversation don't you agree? Even if they get a lil off-course! This is what I love bout this website!
Our body's were created to live forever, before the curse of death. In all actuality, cells with extreme amounts of pressurized oxygen applied to them, act in their original course, maintaining all livelihood to the body.
And that would kill the idea of cancer too.
Cancer is a disease, and disease didn't come into the world, according to the accounts in Genesis, until after Adams' sin.
Hey Ichneumo,
This is a little beyond your grade school dialogue.
It doesn’t matter what the population of a species is.
If there is a mutation and a species starts the process of evolving into another species, the whole process starts over with a population of ONE.
There are only so many reproductive life cycles available in the allotted time frame.
The life tree of any one species is only a single series – straight line.
Oh jeezz ... please let me know if you're under eight years old?
I don't want to break the news to you about Santa ...
Maybe you've stopped learning, sir, but I'll never know it all....
Don't ever post me again, cause I have no patience or appreciation for people like you with that sort of ignorant and inconsiderate mentality!
Pssst, Courtney! Kent Hovind isn't a doctor. He's an embarrassing fraud, tax cheat, and scoflaw. It's all on the net (Google is your friend.)
Just sayin...
You'd do well to read Ichneumon's post on this subject again, this time for comprehension. Your hypothesis bespeaks multiple incomprehensions on your part, so many that it seems unlikely that you have made any effort to understand how populations evolve. You think you've got your "gotcha" that somehow 99% of PhD biologists haven't spotted, and you don't want to let go of it. Fine. Here's a hint though; Mendelian genetics has enormously strengthened evolution, not weakened it. In Darwin's time genetics wasn't known and it was a serious potential weakness of the theory that no-one knew why beneficial differences between offspring and parent didn't just dilute through the population as time went on. Genetics explains the lack of dilution.
This is one of the sillier aspects of the creationist mindset; that you/they spot an objection to mainstream science that a 10 year old could understand, and they think therefore that they've found something that invalidates multiple scientific fields of endeavour that hundreds of thousands of people spend their working lives studying. Presumably you think that either (a) all professional biologists are stupid or (b) all professional biologists are knowingly engaged in an atheist conspiracy to destroy Christianity or (c) both (a) and (b). If you are a young-earth-creationist you can extend that to "all scientists are fools or liars or lying fools".
I've called most of the people who he mentions in his videos, the ones that use the oxygenized pressure tanks, and found out most of what he says is true.
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