Posted on 02/17/2006 8:12:23 AM PST by Velveeta
To me, as a mother, they are mothers in pain.
I don't care about the politics, but my personal opinion is, that if they want answers...they deserve them.
It shouldn't come to this.
They are very weak by now.
Time is running out for them.
Joining you in prayer.
Ain't that the truth!
Good!
The more I dug into specifics of the actions of the military and police at Beslan, the more it looked like the 'Nord-Ost' case.
At 'Nord-Ost' the spetsnaz carried out what I still believe to be a masterful operation, but it was ruined by what one Russian writer called: iz-za ehlementarnoi russkoi nerazberikhi (because of the elementary Russian inability to figure things out).
800 hostages were asleep in the theater, and instead of grabbing the hostages furthest down the aisle - in the area of highest gas concentration - they removed them from the back first. Heavy people were carried out last, no matter where they lay. People got piled on buses, adults on top of children, and large groups were brought into one hospital, overwhelming it, while hospitals specializing in such cases were ignored. No one thought to call the hospitals until hours later and suggest using a certain antitode, or even providing it.
After the crummy medical response at 'Nord-Ost', the Russian government stuck by its guns and refused to kick incompentent butt, and it allowed the hostages and victims who complained to be painted as greedy nit-pickers that just wanted to raid the treasury and insult the honor of the Russian military and police.
Beslan looks like it turned out the same: a long government investigation that turned up no problems on the government's part, and the same 'grief should cry into its pillow' statements about anyone who disagreed.
No one can bring back the dead, and these on-going spectacles are probably not therapeutic for the victims. It's probably too late to fire or discipline a few lieutenants with itchy trigger fingers, or medics who forgot their stretchers on the way to a mass casualty. I don't know what it would take for these people to reach closure.
There is no animal more maternal than a Russian mother, and no bureaucrat more CYA than a Russian government official. Put them together and you've got problems.
I'll get back to you at a later time, Peter.
Running with the kids now to their events.
LOL, I meant for that to be a private message.
Oh well.
http://befree77.livejournal.com/9290.html
(Ànonymous)
2006-02-17 10:01 pm UTC
Dear women! Take care of yourselves. Unfortunately you have to be the ones who are fighting the main struggle for the truth. But we need you healthy, and you've done such damage to your health. Choose another method, while your men and the bureaucrats - send them home to bake pies!
http://befree77.livejournal.com/9016.html
(Anonymous)
2006-02-17 08:30 pm UTC
(You stated that) "we believe it an uncivilized measure and we are against becoming barbarians in response to barbarism."
But a hunger strike - is this a civilized measure? And a triumph of justice?
http://befree77.livejournal.com/8418.html
Olga, Moscow
(Anonymous)
2006-02-17 03:09 pm UTC
My dears! I bow down before your courage! I understand that you are fighting for all of us in the sincere hope that not one mother in Russia would ever again have to suffer the same grief that has fallen to you! Thank you! Hold on!
Answers to her post:
befree77 wrote @ 2006-02-16 21:25:00
Yuriy Petrovich Savelev, member of the Russian Parliament and participant in the Torshin Committee came
MP Yuriy Savelev came to Beslan. He was at the destroyed school, then later went to 'The Voice of Beslan'. He listened to the opinions and the position of the victims. He promised to raise the question of the hunger strike and the investigation in parliament, or at least before the 'Rodina' party. They respect Savelev in Beslan, he is the only one who attentively and meticulously questions people about the terror act, and collects facts. Here they value attention! Everyone awaits his 'special opinion' which I guess is somewhere alongside the official version of the Federal Commission. It's already known that in the final edition of Torshin's report, which will be made around April 1st, all the investigations of the Beslan terror act fit on 5 pages (only a chronology). The other 200 pages (and even more) are a tale of Russian-Caucasus cooperation and official instructions to various agencies - from the Interior to the Emergency Management Ministry - about how they carried everything out brilliantly. And even recommendations to do it better. (instructions and laws) Oh, Alexander Porfirevich (Torshin)...
Andryuha70And befree77's reply:
2006-02-16 07:38 pm UTC
Oi, girls, be careful with this guy from 'Rodina'
linx_meow
2006-02-16 07:42 pm UTC
Uh-huh. It's just that that's their situation, they'll believe anyone...
:-(
I have a very tense relationship with 'Rodina'
befree77
2006-02-17 07:08 am UTC
But in Beslan (and in the Caucasus in general) it's a popular party. In Chechnya they're even a little stronger than United Russia. Although for me it's a surprise. But the discussion is about the Beslan people who don't forget that it was Rogozin, Markelov, and Savelev who were here during 1-3 September. And no one else unfortunately. What's to hide here?
Seems like anywhere you look there are no easy answers! Thanks for the input
There is no animal more maternal than a Russian mother, and no
bureaucrat more CYA than a Russian government official. Put them
together and you've got problems.<<<<
The Russian Official, the American Official, they are not that different, it is a "I am important, you will do it my way" mind set.
Judge Underdown that I worked for, was not the typical official, he was there to serve his small town.
I went thru hell, as the other women in the office, were of the typical mind set "it is not your job to help that person".
I left and they stayed on for years.
In attempting to understand the Mothers, I suspect that the extra stress of dealing with the officials has pushed them into the same mind set as a terrorist, a what is there to live for, the world has tilted.
There is a big difference, of course, the Mother has been forced into it and the terrorist chose his path/religion.
It is not difficult for me to imagine the pain and the anger that they feel, as it appears to those of us following the accidents from a world away that something is wrong, think what it would feel like to be standing there and watching all the wrong things happening.
It comes back to the officials not caring what happens to the rest of the people.
Will the Mothers take this hunger strike to death?
Will anyone even know that they have died? or care?
But a hunger strike - is this a civilized measure? And a triumph
of justice?<<<
That poster is not from San Francisco, or they would support the 'new age' hunger strike.
I fear that I am more old west, a noose or a bullet or two, might cure the problems with crooked officials, but alas, those days are the "old days".
We need John Wayne justice.
But the discussion is
about the Beslan people who don't forget that it was Rogozin,
Markelov, and Savelev who were here during 1-3 September.
And no one else unfortunately. What's to hide here?<<<
More politicians, making points, at every opportunity?
I do not see a big difference in their reports, from our own 9-11 commission report, or Waco or the JFK reports, they all said what the officials wanted in them and it had no relation to the real truths.
When I checked the petition a few minutes ago, it had added only one American name and a few others.
I had hopes that it would have doubled in numbers of names.
http://befree77.livejournal.com/9290.html
(Anonymous) 2006-02-18 01:14 am UTC
Lena,
Tell the girls that they're not just talking about them in the former USSR - here's a link to a site on which there is a discussion:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1580505/posts
http://befree77.livejournal.com/9016.htmlFood for thought. I went to HRO.org, it comes up in my browser as a Russian human rights site with lots of links to Amnesty International, but I couldn't find anything on Beslan from the front page.
nansyen
2006-02-17 11:38 pm UTC
Please, dear Beslan mothers, take care of yourselves! We hear you. Everyone needs you - your loved ones, and your countrymen, and all of us. But the death penalty - that's a dead end. I join in the demands of 'The Voice of Beslan'. The death penalty is the government's terrible temptation. They'll start with Kulayev but later they can do it to anyone - and not just and not only terrorists, and it would be fully legal... Yesterday I was on HRO.org and signed a letter supporting you. And don't believe this government! In September of 2005 we were in St Petersbrg holding a vigil for the Beslan children, but the government made their own 'Silence of the Lambs' (the official title was 'Without Words'). We handed out anti-war leaflets and a few of us were detained by the police. We're with you!!!
AI and other crazies would probably be more upset about re-instating the death penalty in Russia than six women starving to death, but it's probably a case of a broken clock showing the correct time twice a day.
There are also some not so helpful people. The NBP people are the National-Bolshevik Party, which is the only group that makes neo-nazis and anarchists look normal. They would lynch Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi for being too (American-style) conservative. This are not good people to have on your side under any circumstances.
The 'Rodina' ('Motherland') party is also not very good PR. Just seeing their signatures makes me want to delete my own :-(
February 10, 2006 latimes.comRadio Free Europe - Radio Liberty:
IN BRIEF / RUSSIA
Mothers Go Hungry to Protest Handling of Trial
From Times Wire Reports
Seven mothers of children killed in the 2004 school takeover in Beslan began a hunger strike to protest what they said were efforts to end the trial of an alleged attacker prematurely.
The group has demanded that top Russian officials testify.
The lead prosecutor demanded death for Nur-Pashi Kulayev, the man alleged to be the sole surviving attacker. More than 330 hostages were killed, nearly half of them children.
A verdict could be delivered by the end of the month, a prosecutor's spokesman said.
Monday, 13 February 2006ABC News International (On the 'do not post' list)
Beslan Mothers Continue Hunger Strike
13 February 2006 -- Six mothers of children who died in the September 2004 school massacre in Beslan continued for a fifth day today a hunger strike to protest against the official investigation of the tragedy.
The three-day standoff between armed militants who raided the school in North Ossetia and Russian security forces resulted in the deaths of 331 people, about half of them children.
Last week, a top Russian prosecutor demanded the death penalty for Nurpashi Kulayev, who authorities say is the lone surviving hostage taker. Kulayev is the only person on trial in connection with the massacre.
Victims' relatives say authorities bear part of the blame for the tragedy and have demanded an international probe.
Seven women began the hunger strike on 9 February, but one of them abandoned the protest after she began to feel ill. Two other women were also reportedly feeling sick.
(AFP)
And the worldest slowest loading page News 24.com
Beslan moms on hunger strike
13/02/2006 16:43 - (SA)
Vladikavkaz - Six mothers of children who died in the September 2004 school massacre in Beslan on Monday began a fifth day of a hunger strike to protest against the official investigation on the tragedy, which they say is too narrow.
Families of victims believe that suspected hostage-taker Nurpashi Kulayev, who is currently on trial, should not be the only person in the dock and that elements of Russia's security services should be taken to task for their role in the deaths of 331 people, including 186 children.
Their group, Voice of Beslan, has already called for an international probe into the bloody episode which erupted on September 1 2004, when guerrillas supporting the Chechen rebel cause seized the primary school in Beslan, close to the border with Chechnya.
They took hostage more than 1 000 schoolchildren, parents and teachers in a standoff that ended three days later after a fierce fight with security forces.
Seven women began the hunger strike, but one of them abandoned the protest when her daughter fell sick and she herself began to feel ill.
Voice of Beslan chairperson Ella Kessayeva said: "Two other women also feel very ill. We have asked a doctor to examine them."
The hunger strike was launched on Thursday, the day after a top Russian prosecutor called for the death penalty to be imposed on Kulayev, the only person on trial over the massacre.
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