Darwinism and the Religion of Scientific Materialism

The Post Chronicle ^ | Feb. 10, 2006 | Linda Kimball

[T.L.Sink]

Yes, but as I stated in #74 Marxism has incorporated its view of Darwinian evolution into its ideology. Remember, a good Marxist felt that its ideology not only was the key to history - dialectical materialism - but it was an all-embracing ideology that explained scientific phenomena in terms of its laws. Likewise, Hegel didn't (and couldn't have) know anything about Marxism but Karl Marx used his idealistic (idealistic in the philosophical definition) evolutionary system and reinterpreted it in terms of materialism. As Marx said, "I stood Hegel right side up."

[T.L.Sink]

au contraire -- see my 74 & 81. If you want me to elaborate on this I will.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"au contraire -- see my 74 & 81. If you want me to elaborate on this I will."

No need. Socialism was around long before Darwin, and any linkage between the two is superficial at best. That's why Stalin had people espousing natural selection imprisoned/killed. Evolution isn't a progressive push to greater *fitness* or a *higher* state. Marxists in general grossly misread evolution.

[PatrickHenry]

Marxism has incorporated its view of Darwinian evolution into its ideology.

Thus demonstrating the insanity of Marxism, because if they really understood evolution, they'd take a "hands off" approach to economics, letting the economy develop according to its own dynamics, and then they'd all be disciples of Adam Smith.

[T.L.Sink]

For that matter evolution, too, was around long before Darwin -- it can be traced back to the classical Greek Empedocles (5th century BC) who developed not only a theory of evolution but an accompanying "survival of the fittest" doctrine. It's pointless to talk which came first because the fact is that Lenin himself wrote about Darwin's compatibility with the Marxist ideology. And given many of the presuppositions of Marxism they went together like bread and butter. Is the glass half empty or half full? ---- BOTH (scientifically)

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"For that matter evolution, too, was around long before Darwin -- it can be traced back to the classical Greek Empedocles (5th century BC) who developed not only a theory of evolution but an accompanying "survival of the fittest" doctrine."

These claims are extremely shabby; there is no real connection with what Darwin said and Empedocles.

"It's pointless to talk which came first because the fact is that Lenin himself wrote about Darwin's compatibility with the Marxist ideology."

Lenin never understood Darwin.

"And given many of the presuppositions of Marxism they went together like bread and butter. "

That's why Stalin had people supporting natural selection killed. Marxism has nothing to do with evolutionary biology as understood by biologists. Any claims by Marxists for a connection only shows the Marxist's ignorance about what evolution is.

[T.L.Sink]

If you don't see the connection that's been obvious to Soviet historians and philosophers so be it. By the way your understanding of Stalin's view is very wrong. If you want to inform yourself read about Stalin and Lysenko.

[YHAOS]

“It is beyond dispute that Marx wrote most of his work about communism before Darwin published Origin of Species, so there is zero intellectual influence of Darwin on Marx.”

Works of Marx appearing after Darwin’s Origins:

Theories of Surplus Value - Volume 1 (written 1861-3)

Volume 2 & Volume 3 - never published; never, I believe, completed in more than outline form

Articles on the American Civil War in Die Presse, 1861

Speeches and Communications re. International Workingmen's Association, with F. Engels, 1864-1874.

“Value, Prices and Profit” - Address to the IWMA, 1865.

Das Kapital: Critique of political economy -

Volume One: The Process of Production of Capital , 1867.

Volume Two: The Process of Circulation of Capital, 1885.

Volume Three: The Process of Capitalist Production as a Whole, 1894.

"The Abolition of Private Property", 1869 memo

"The Civil War in France", 1871.

Fictitious Splits in the (First) International, with F. Engels 1872

Documents, etc. on the Hague Congress of the IWMA, with F. Engels, 1872

"Political Indifferentism", 1874, Almanacco Repubblicano

"Conspectus on Bakunin", 1875, unpubl. notes

"For Poland", with F. Engels, 1875, speech

Critique of the Gotha Program, 1875.

"Strategy and Tactics of the Class Struggle", with F. Engels, 1879, letter

"A Worker's Inquiry", 1880, Revue socialiste

"The Programme of the Parti Ouvrier" with Jules Guesde, 1880

Works of Marx prior to Origins:

"The Difference Between the Democritean and Epicurean Philosophy of Nature", 1841 (first published 1902)

"On Freedom of the Press", 1842, Rheinische Zeitung

"On the Law on the Theft of Wood", 1842, Rheinische Zeitung

"Communism and the Augsburg Allgemeine Zeitung", 1842, Rheinische Zeitung

"Comments on the Latest Prussian Censorship Instruction", 1843, Anekdota zur neuesten deutschen Philosophie und Publicistik

Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right, 1843

"Introduction to a Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right", 1844, Deutsch-Französicher Jahrbucher

"On The Jewish Question", 1844, Deutsch-Französicher Jahrbucher

"Critical Notes on the "The King of Prussia"", 1844, Vorwarts!

Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts, 1844

"Comments on James Mill's Elements of Political Economy", (written 1844, published 1932)

The Holy Family -- or a Critique of Critical Critique, 1844

"Theses on Feuerbach", 1845, publ. 1886 in Engels, Ludwig Feuerbach and the End of Classical German Philosophy

A Critique of the German Ideology, with F. Engels 1846

The Poverty of Philosophy, 1847.

Manifesto of the Communist Party with F. Engels, 1848.

"On the Question of Free Trade", 1848, speech in Brussels

"Communism, Revolution and a Free Poland", 1848, speech in Brussels

"The Demands of the Communist Party in Germany", with F. Engels, 1848 - pamphlet

"Addresses to the Central Committee of the Communist League" with F. Engels, 1850 - March, June

Articles in Die Neue Reinische Zeitung, 1848-49.

Reviews in Die Neue Reinische Zeitung Revue, with F. Engels, 1850

"Wage Labor and Capital", 1849, Neue Reinische Zeitung

"England's 17th Century Revolution" with F. Engels, 1850, Politische-Okonomische Revue

Articles on the Class Struggle in France, 1848 to 1850, 1850, Neue Reinische Zeitung.

"Revolution and Counter-Revolution in Germany", 1851 (first publ. 1896)

"The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte", 1852, Die Revolution.

Heroes of the Exile with F. Engels, 1852 (first publ. 1930)

Articles from the New York Daily Tribune, 1852-1861

Articles on China War from New York Daily Tribune, 1853-1860

"The Duchess of Sutherland and Slavery", 1853, People's Paper

"Anti-Church Movement: Demonstration in Hyde Park", 1855, Neue Oder-Zeitung

"Speech at anniversary of the People's Paper", 1856, People's Paper

"Pre-Capitalist Economic Formations", 1857 (publ. 1939)

Contribution to a Critique of Political Economy, 1859. - Preface (1857) (and, allowing Marx the need for a little digestion time)

Outlines for a Critique of Political Economy (Grundrisse), 1859

Now everyone can see for themselves if “Marx wrote most of his work about communism before Darwin published Origin of Species” or if he did not. If, that is, they can figure how many Critiques, Comments, notes, articles, and speeches or pamphlets it takes to equal Theories of Surplus Value or one volume of Das Kapital.

[Ken H]

It's pointless to talk which came first because the fact is that Lenin himself wrote about Darwin's compatibility with the Marxist ideology.

Couldn't the same be said of Hitler and Christianity?

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm

[YHAOS]

"are you one of the good guys??"

My wife and our two boys, now grown men, think so. Subject to debate, I suppose. Depends on who you speak with. Why? Are you trying to figure out whether or not to be civil? [grin]

[T.L.Sink]

Sorry, but trying to equate Hitler in any way, shape or form with Christianity is too much of a stretch for me. By the way, Stalin got all his formal education in the Tiflis theological seminary where he studied for the Orthodox priesthood. They said he was a great vocalist in the choir. I'd put the two of them in the same category. Before Hitler became psychotic he was all things to all men in the Weimar Republic - his way of getting the vote. If he needed the Jewish vote to close the margin he'd probably have said he only appeared anti-Semitic because he needed the racist vote - and Mein Kampf was taken out of context.

[Ken H]

Sorry, but trying to equate Hitler in any way, shape or form with Christianity is too much of a stretch for me.

I'm not sure why you used the word equate, or what you were sorry for. Anyway, you wrote:

the fact is that Lenin himself wrote about Darwin's compatibility with the Marxist ideology.

Hitler did the same with Christianity, so you can't cite one in support of your argument, but discard the other.

[T.L.Sink]

Sorry (again) but I find whatever argument you're trying to articulate beyond the rational and intelligible.

[Ken H]

When you put forth that Lenin cites Darwin, it is rational and intelligible.

When someone else puts forth that Hitler cites Christianity, it is beyond rational and intelligible.

The inconsistency of the two positions should be apparent now.

[Alamo-Girl]

God is Life in the here and now, as well as in the beyond of this world -- not some utopian future paradise whose manifestation here on earth is doubtful at best.

So very true! And how sad when people do not believe our report.

[T.L.Sink]

Good night and good luck.

[Alamo-Girl]

LOLOL, YHAOS!

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"If you don't see the connection that's been obvious to Soviet historians and philosophers so be it."

There is no connection between the science of evolution and the workings of Marxism. Soviet historians may have used the term *evolution* in some vague sense, but they never understood the way scientists actually understood it. And YOU certainly have shown no connection.

" By the way your understanding of Stalin's view is very wrong. If you want to inform yourself read about Stalin and Lysenko."

Are you saying that under Stalin(because of the influence of Lysenko) people supporting natural selection (and Mendelian genetics) were not persecuted, imprisoned, and at times killed? Please show where this did NOT happen.

[MineralMan]

"Cool. The globules, right?"

Yes, it's the globules.

[bvw]

When the quartz (I'm guessing) crystallized out of the molten mineral flux, it did so so rapidally that it created a local vacuum zone that the titanium-mix bubbled into -- I wonder if those globules are geode-like.