Posted on 11/15/2005 3:47:04 PM PST by Stepan12
Thank you for staying largely true to them, and for fighting to spread and protect them in the face of overwhelming opposition. And thanks for remembering us. ;)
And thanks be to G-d for giving us the Laws and the Commandments, and the wisdom of the Good Book.
And for America.
Amen!
Could not agree more. However, I think that this success is more a product of the ideals and ethics of Christianity, and Judaism, than a specific religion.
If the founding fathers had wanted this nation to be 'Christian' they would have had no trouble at the beginning making it so. The vast majority of people in the colonies were Christian and they could have easily excluded all other religions, which as learned men of the time the founding fathers were well aware of.
At the time of the founding there were many examples of 'Christian' nations in the world, England being one, but the founders chose a different course. One that had never been attempted, one that recognized the rights of man to choose his own life path and religion.
From the Declaration of Independence:
"...to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,..."
"...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
"...with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence,..."
This country was founded by Christians! It was founded based on the premise that only God can grant freedom. All man can do is deny freedom.
Do Atheists celebrate Thanksgiving? If so, exactly who do they give thanks to? Each other?
Do people really believe that the universe is just one big cosmic accident? If there is no God, no right or wrong, no judgment waiting for us on the other side, what point is there to set down any laws? On whose authority? Let's just go over to straight anarchy and be done with it.
Would someone please enlighten me as to what Jesus said or did that's got so many people peeved at him? 2000 years have passed and some people are still trying to kill him!
Said it before and I'll say it again: The Viagra people could solve most of the world's problems if they just invent a pill that gives people that permanent sex-high they're all looking for. I really don't think that sex was intended for use as a recreational drug. The pharmaceutical companies could possibly solve this problem.
Answer, it doesn't. Belief in God does not make one a Christian.
Try again.
I don't think anyone could put it much better than you did just now. And most definitely, I agree it is the ideals and ethics of Christianity and Judaism than a specific religion. However, I am a firm believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". And if it's broke, admit there's a problem and call in a trusted handyman.
I think we need to fight to maintain the culture. And above all, stay true to the Constitution. But that also means staying true to the vision the founders adhered to. I don't think they envisioned a land without religion, just one in which the state did not interefere in private matters. As you said, though, if they wanted it to be a purely Christian nation, it could easily have been so. It is a testament to their virtue and commitment to the majestic ideals of America's founding that they didn't.
I don't want a theocracy. But I don't think that's really a viable option. ;) I don't even want to legislate morality (unless its in the best interests of the nation and does not infringe upon individual rights too much). Re-asserting Judeo-Christian ethics and values and ideals into America? That is, and I feel that's something we've lost over the last 40 years. And that we need to get back, if we want to see America strong and proud and free again as it once was, and could easily be again.
I'm not Christian and I believe in G-d. The same G-d you do. Many of the founding fathers were deists. And most were at least partially influenced by deist thought, which was prominent and popular at the time in salon discussions and the like.
The point wasn't that America was created to be without G-d, but without a state religion (like, say England and Anglicanism, or France and the Catholic Church). Anyone could come and worship as they pleased, in peace, so long as they were willing to live by and defend American rights and values.
"Wussies.
I drink Pepsi anyway, I can't stand Coke.
Is it time for a meaningless boycott alert? :)"
I'd be closer to boycotting polar bears than Coke... :)
There are entire cities I avoid because of the difficulties getting real Coke and Diet Coke.
As I Christian myself, specifically a Catholic, I believe in the Holy Trinity. That the path to God goes through Jesus, with assistance from the Holy Spirit. I'm not aware of anything Jesus said or did that deviates from God the father.
This redefinition of 'separation of Church and State' has me very frightened. Freedom of religion is systematically being re-interpreted as freedom from religion. I wonder if, in the future, the God-haters will be so bold as to tell me how to pray? Will I be prevented from pursuing public office or even employment because I choose to follow a religion?
http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html
Why do you put a hyphen between the 'g' and the 'd'?
I believe, as you, that America should not be without God. My fear is that the most ardent supporters of this redefined 'separation of church and state' are out to do just that.
Such a fool you are. I do not bow to my own form of religion. Why should anyone else?
As to speaking for God. He can do that better for Himself. Pity you are not listening. You might begin to understand the truth about our Constitution and Christianity at its core.
It is not religion that is at stake. It is God.
Jewish cultural thing; I'd say most Jews don't do it, but a few do. A couple of the other Jewish FReepers do as well. It's so I avoid writing a name of G-d, to avoid the sin of erasing or defacing the Name (blasphemy) as the Name itself is held to be sacred. Hebrew school taught me to do it when I was young, and though I drifted away from religion for a long while (a long while being relative as I'm only 21 now), I drifted back and I guess I kinda just picked up a few of my old habits.
And yes, I think your fear is a very reasonable one. I do think its mainly the most ardent supporters of what you rightly term a redefinition, but they are enough of a problem. It's something we need to worry about, but not panic about. Just teach your children to love G-d, and to love His Laws and commandments. Teach them to be good people and good Americans, and you will have done your part. Although there's always more to do, if you're feeling up to it. ;)
Read 11Bush's latest post. I think it sums up a very reasonable perspective. ;)
Nice post, though. And it's unfortunate so many people have tried to push G-d from their lives. I think it goes to the root of many problems of our society.
Read 11Bush's latest post. I think it sums up a very reasonable perspective. ;)
Nice post, though. And it's unfortunate so many people have tried to push G-d from their lives. I think it goes to the root of many problems of our society.
I just 'Googled' the word 'deist' and found this definition: Deist is defined in Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary, 1941, as: "One who believes in the existence of a God or supreme being but denies revealed religion, basing his belief on the light of nature and reason."
http://www.deism.com/deism_defined.htm
I will say that Deism does have it's advantages. After all, those pesky 'revealed religions' have so many silly rules like: 'Thou shalt not commit adultery' - or - 'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.' I take it that, as a Deist, a person simply acknowledges the existence of God and that's it. A person gives prayers of thanks and appreciation and does not dictate to God. (I have no quarrel with that part) But it seems to me that God isn't very well defined here, meaning God can not dictate to people either. Individuals can define God any way they want to. No rules, no sin. Quite convenient actually.
It's been fun folks, but I'm late for bed. Good night.
Apparently neither of my two links in posts 71 and 77 worked right. Sorry folks. My knowledge of HTML is very limited.
I'll try it again:
http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html
http://www.deism.com/deism_defined.htm
Am I against the ACLU, the government, and NGOs from deciding religious questions? Hell yes! Do I think that this country needs to find it's religious bearing? Hell yes! Do I think that you, or any other religion, should be the only one? HELL NO!
As to God being at stake, He will Be long after man has faded from the universe.
Then we have no disagreement. Good.
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