Posted on 09/10/2005 9:23:00 PM PDT by Blogger
I'm not so sure we do. And she would stand with or without us. Because we are not her protector.
As to the poor people that had nothing to do with Israel, New Orleans was a wicked city. Its murder rate was 10 times the national average. It was a haven for voodoo, for prostitution, for every sort of evil you could imagine. Doesn't mean that some good folks didn't live there, but the rain falls on the good and the bad. Even if we hadn't pushed Israel with Gaza, N.O. God would be justified in striking us. The fact that WE exist after murdering 40 million of our own children by sacrificing them to the god "Choice" is testimony to His mercy and grace. His judgment does not, however, sleep forever. And the further we push Him away the less His protection and blessing will abide on our nation.
"I trust God to bless and "curse" those with justice."
Not sure what you mean? Do you believe that God uses acts of nature and divine intervention in world events today?
I believe God is very active in every aspect of His character. We embrace his mercy and love. That's the only part of him we hear about. If I post an article like I just did, people don't want to hear that he might be a God of wrath as well.
As to the Indians, I can not say specifically that the hurricane activity was any sort of specific judgment on their specific sins. I can say that all death and suffering and bad weather etc. has come about because of the fall of man into sin. The Bible says all of Creation GROANS under a curse. Sometimes, when bad things happened, I believe it is this curse which we are seeing in play alone. Other times, it can be for a specific sin, such as Sodom and Gomorrah. But God is not just a placating and smiling God. Many are thumbing their noses at him in this VERY BLESSED nation. I fear for us.
Do you believe that EVERY PERSON in Israel had turned away from God when they went into Babylonian Captivity? Sometimes, people are judged for the sins of their leaders. Look at King David and something as simple as a census. I know that is not the God that we like to talk about. But it is another aspect of His person that we should all know and respect. He is just as much a God of wrath as He is a God of love, and ALL of us stand guilty of sin before Him.
I hear it all the time.
The car wouldn't start on Sunday morning. It was A)The Enemy trying to thwart worship B)God teaching me a lesson - patience, maybe. C)A dead battery.
Only a few Christians will pick C, and they run the risk of appearing "unspiritual" for their lack of imagination, er, I mean insight.
Thanks for explaining that better for me. I'm still kind of young. I was a teen in the 90's, didn't understand the middle east strife much until 9/11.
You know what kinda bothers me about all of this? The implication that we - especially we Christians - only support Israel because there's something in it for us.
I know that's not your point, but it is clearly the motivation this event-linking encourages.
Bump for later.
"Can you give me scripture and verse to support why you believe God doesn't use nature to bring about judgment upon kings, rulers, cities or nations?"
Can you give me a verse where he does, either during, or after Jesus' testament short of his second coming?
Along with the 25 Warning Signs to America in regards to Israel I received this email from a prolife ministry that you might find interesting too.
Was God’s Hand Involved in Hurricane Katrina?
by Jason Storms
I am writing the following as one who has lived for several years in New Orleans, ministering on the streets and in the community, and as one who has family and friends in the city who have lost much.
In recent years there has been a deliberate attempt by many Christian leaders to improve the public image of Christianity. While this is not entirely a bad thing, at times it can go too far. An example of this is the way that natural disasters and similar tragedies are immediately declared to be innocent of God’s handiwork by so many spokesmen for the Christian community. In some cases I am sure that this is so; accidents happen; God often times simply allows laws of cause and effect to take their course. But, to say such disaster is “out of character for God” is not only inaccurate but is not doing Christianity nor it’s Author any favors. Noah experienced a move of God in his day when the Lord wiped out the entire population of the earth in the flood. Sodom and Gomorrah were annihilated by fire and brimstone rained down from above. Those who would claim that God wouldn’t cause such a thing as Hurricane Katrina, needn’t dig too deep to find contradiction in their worldview. If you do not believe the Bible, so be it, then let this be the point of our contention, but to say that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who has revealed Himself through His Son, Jesus Christ and the Holy Scriptures, is not capable within the bounds of His character to do such a thing is the height of absurdity. “The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom”.
It is clear to me as I have traveled extensively all over this nation doing ministry on the streets, that the city of New Orleans is the most depraved in all our society. The city epitomizes the pomp, pride, and hedonistic godlessness that is becoming the character of our nation. Biloxi and Gulfport, on the Mississippi coast, are modeling their cities after much of New Orleans. Their gambling casinos, associated with organized crime, prostitution and exploitation bring an estimated $500,000 in taxes each day for the state! Those casinos do not exist today.
Bourbon Street , the most famous street in New Orleans , full of bars and strip clubs, is a dirty and disgusting cesspool which engulfs its inhabitants in the foulest odors of stale beer and urine. It attracts people from all over the world, culminating in the Mardi Gras celebration, a week of drunkenness and revelry. One of the highlights of Mardi Gras is the exchanging of plastic beads for girls to expose their breasts. A very common scene on Bourbon Street, not just during Mardi Gras, but any night of the week, is a crowd of drunk men surrounding a woman chanting “show your tits” until the girl exposes her breasts to the crowd. Over a million people come into New Orleans for Mardi Gras every year, many of whom are college students who take these obscene practices back to their own cities and towns. Like a cancer New Orleans has spread her disease to much of our nation .
“Girls Gone Wild”, as well as a host of similar offshoots, has its origins in New Orleans .
Southern Decadence, one of the largest and most vulgar “gay” celebrations in the world, finds its home in New Orleans every Labor Day weekend (interestingly enough, Katrina made landfall just 2 days before Decadence was scheduled to begin) , as the city rolls out the red carpet to prostitute itself for the revenue generated by such depravity. In fact, a huge percentage of the city’s income stems from its “parties” in the French Quarter every week.
The city’s political system has been well known to be one of the most corrupt in the nation for years; this has been well documented with numerous city and state officials currently behind bars.
New Orleans has been the nation’s murder capitol multiple times. Thus far this year, they were again the nation’s leader in murders. Along with this are epidemic problems with drug addiction, crime and poverty.
Voodoo, witchcraft, and the occult are popular attractions in the city. A major annual music concert titles itself the “Voodoo Festival”.
New Orleans is a city full of crime, violence, corruption and perversion that influences the world with its seductive allurements. It is a city where the awful fruit of sin is keenly evident with the crime, poverty and brokenness. Yet, they continue to suppress the truth in their unrighteousness; unwilling to repent, unwilling to humble themselves and turn away from these destructive things.
The damage that was created by Katrina is nothing compared to the damage that sin in all its fullness has been creating in New Orleans and through its influence every day, year after year. When we see a young couple gruesomely killed by a drunk driver who thought it was ok to “get wasted” and drive home, I see Bourbon Street and the flood waters. When I hear of a family being ripped apart because of the sexual addiction of an unfaithful husband who thought “a little fun” was ok, I think of the French Quarter and the flood waters. When I see a young kid get shot to death while “slangin” crack on his corner because poverty and crime are all he has known, I think of New Orleans and I think of the flood waters. When I see a teenage girl going into a clinic where a doctor is ripping out of her womb, piece by piece a little human being created in Gods image, thinking it is her "choice", I think of New Orleans and I think of the flood waters. When will our nation awake? When will we hear the cry of our Lord to “Love God with all our hearts, and to Love our neighbor as ourselves”?
Sin has consequences. This was true yesterday, it is true today and it will be true tomorrow. God has shown His mighty hand and His displeasure, not just to New Orleans but to our entire nation. Will we hear, is the great question of this hour.
It might help you understand my point better when you realize that I was responding to someone besides the original poster.
The point is that we Christians tend to infuse events with spiritual significance, and most of the time don't really have a clue what we're talking about.
Whether on the personal level (a dead battery), or the international level (Israel and disasters), the best we can do is speculate. The worst we can do is speculate, spiritualize, and then dogmatize.
We can't even make up our minds on the small stuff, like dead batteries. I've been a Christian for 25 years now. I've heard people randomly blame such inconveniences on either the devil or the Lord, depending on their current perspective.
What I'm saying is that, as a pastor, when asked about the reasons for the hurricane, the tsunami, or any other natural disaster, I've stopped the spiritualized speculation, and just say the true and "unspiritual" thing - "I don't know".
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.