In Defense of our National Heritage

National Morality. Com ^ | 06-22-05 | Wayne D. Leeper

[mlc9852]

They exist - they just aren't important.

[tenn2005]

My quote was from Washington himself, yours was from someone trying to make Washington something that he wasn't in order to support their dislike of Christianity. You are defeating your own position.

[Mylo]

George Washington wasn't important?
Thomas Jefferson wasn't important?
Thomas Paine wasn't important?
Benjamin Franklin wasn't important?
James Madison wasn't important?
James Monroe wasn't important?

Dang! You have a fairly fantastical view of the founding of this nation if you think the above Deists were not important.

[Mylo]

I quoted Washington as well, saying that all Americans had equal freedom of religion, not just Christians.

Nothing in your quote indicated that Washington was a Christian and not a deist.

Arthur B. Bradford, who was an associate of Ashbel Green another Presbyterian minister who had known George Washington personally. Bradford wrote that Green, "often said in my hearing, though very sorrowfully, of course, that while Washington was very deferential to religion and its ceremonies, like nearly all the founders of the Republic, he was not a Christian, but a Deist."

[tenn2005]

Please explain why all the "diest" you name worshipped at Christian churches and oppened thie deliberations with a prayer to the Christian God. It was religious intolorance that they opposed, not the God of the Bible.

[Mylo]

Thomas Jefferson attended church every Sunday of his Presidency (yet not before or after). When caught going into Church with his Bible in his hand a friend admonished him with 'but you don't believe a word of it'.

Jefferson answered that he felt as 'chief magistrate' (i.e. the President) it was up to him to set a good example.

Are you trying to say that Thomas Jefferson was a Christian? He didn't believe in the divinity of Christ.

[tenn2005]

More myth. Go to the old church at colonial Williamsburg and check their records. You will find that Jefferson, Washington, and Patrick Henry were all members of that congregation. Why are you so intent on denying the Christian influence in America?

[mlc9852]

Are you saying none of them were Christians? Again, why do you want to deny the Christian heritage of this country?

[Mylo]

I am saying they were Deists who put no faith in the supernatural or the divinity of Christ; therefor NOT CHRISTIANS.

Can anyone explain to me how Jefferson wasn't a Deist but was a Bible believing Christian? The numerous quotes I cited, along with much of his writings give the lie to any such notion.

I don't want to deny the Christian heritage of this nation, I just wish to combat the historical revisionism that tries to portray this nation as exclusively Christian, a nation founded upon Christian law, and a nation where non-Christains do not have the same rights.

The FACTS are that most of the influential founding fathers were Deists. As a Deist I believe the contributions of these most influential Deists needs to be recognized.

[tenn2005]

It is the Christian heritage and infleuence of this nation that gives you the right to be a deist, and athiest, a muslim, or anything else that you wand to be. You should be thankful to our Christian founders for giving you that right. Not spending your time disparagin the God of the Bible and those of us who follow his teachings.

[atlaw]

"We believe that the principles set forth in the Holy Scriptures should determine the decisions to be made and the course to be followed by those who would seek to lead this nation. We believe that obedience to the commandments of God is the best and greatest hope for our continuation as a Divinely blessed and protected people."

In short, we believe in a theocracy.

"The battle must be won and the key to victory is the appointment of judges who both respect The God of Heaven and correctly understand the intent of our founders when they penned the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States of America."

Of course, the declaration of independence has no bearing on American jurisprudence. And the constitution is deliberately religion-neutral, saying nothing about religious purity tests for judges, implementation of Christianity as the state religion, or implementation of laws that ostensibly accord with scripture. But don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

[mlc9852]

What rights do Christians have that everyone else doesn't? What are you babbling about anyway?

[mlc9852]

What exactly do "diests" believe anyway? And why? Do you just make up your own rules as you go along?

[Mylo]

It is the Deist influence of this nation that protects by right to believe what I wish, as put forth by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison (the rights were GIVEN by our Creator). You should be thankful to our Deist founders for giving you the right to worship as you see fit. I am quoting our founders, not disparaging anyone (although some of their quotes are quite derogatory towards superstition, priests and organized religion)except those who wish to rewrite history to suite their goals.

[tenn2005]

You obviously have no understanding of the difference between the laws of creation and the laws of redemption. God's laws of creation are intended to govern the affairs between individuals while the laws of redemption govern the relationship between man and God. The government has every right to make laws regarding how one individual is to treat another and anothers property. The laws of redemption are strictly between the individual and God. No one is trying to impose the Christian religion on others but intelligent minds do understand that the level of national morality will determine not only our future but the future of our children and grandchildren. Why is this simple concept so hard for the liberal left to understand?

Separate Church and State, Not God and State
http://www.nationalmorality.com/index_files/Page793.htm

[Mylo]

I'm babbling about your bigoted quote in the article you linked to

“The real object of the Amendment was, not to countenance, much less advance Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects" By a bigoted Supreme Court Justice.


Contradicted by George Washington writing to the Jews of Newport: "All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance"

So there are no rights that Christians in the USA have that other religions do not. AS IT SHOULD BE.

[Mylo]

Deists believe in a Creator who established Natural law and the Natural yearnings of men to be free and gave them rights, and among these rights are the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Deists do not assume any particular insight into the nature of the Creator, and reject all doctrines and creeds. Deists reject the supernatural as blasphemous against the natural order that the creator set up at the beginning of time.

[tenn2005]

So the diest believes that every man is a law unto himself and that there are no absolute guiding principals to be followed. Sounds a whole lot like anarchy to me.

[Mylo]

Not in the slightest. Why must you disparage my beliefs and those of our founding fathers? Why are you so intolerant? Why do you wish to deny the influence of our Deist founding fathers?

[tenn2005]

I don't deny their influence I just deny that they were diest. I have not read a single quote where one of them referred to himself as a diest. That is a lable which you have put on them. Noone is disparaging your beliefs. You have every right to them but I am finding it very difficult to understand just what your beliefs are and what guiding principals they are based on.