Why Most Public School Teachers Hate Parents

"Anyone who supports homosexual behavior is irrefutably either ignorant of, or willfully chooses to ignore, the fact that it's an incredibly destructive and unhealthy behavior. That's a scientific, medical fact, that stands apart from any moral considerations."

--I'm not sure what you're talking about, actually. A Scientific, MEDICAL fact? Really? How so? Let's get medical! =)

"This is where your ability to engage in meaningful dialog breaks down: You make statements that are nothing more than your own opinions, and declare them as fact, as if saying something over and over automatically makes it so."

--I'm not sure I said anything over and over. If I did, I apologize, because someone who debates that way is annoying. Secondly, I believe that in a debate, it is sort of a given that people are stating their opinions. I hope I don't have to begin each of my opinions with, "In my opinion..." That's just as annoying, no?

"It's as if it never occurred to you that someone on the other side of an issue is just as informed as you, just as smart as you."

--I did get very defensive in my last reply. It was filled with emotion. But I don't think this at all. There happen to be very intelligent people with all kinds of philosophies and all kinds of life backgrounds. (Young, OLD, conservative, LIBERAL). Intelligence is not necessarily marked by how one percieves the world, but (at least partly) by how open to adaptation and discoveries they are. Sometimes the people who make the coolest discoveries are those who were CURIOUS and open to the possibility of positive change. They had former misconceptions and sought to change them. I'd be foolish to believe I was smarter than someone else just because they have different ideas than myself. I'd close myself off from growth, from challenge. I am sorry if I came across as arrogant. I think I have alot to learn, especially from those who are older and wiser. I sincerely mean it. Even if, at the end of discussion, we still sharply disagree, I hope to come away having learned something. If nothing else, how to disagree without letting anger or hatred form, and maybe how to respect someone else's views that differ from my own. I'm still learning this!

"If someone disagrees with you, they're automatically "afraid" or "ignorant.""

--I hope I don't have this conception. It'd be wrong. It's the particular issue we were talking about that I thought had to do with fear and ignorance. Just my opinion, though.

--You know, MM, I think we both have differing views and both care about people in general. In a way, we both want to "impose" our idea of ethical behavior onto others. "Impose" is a strong word, but I mean we both wish people would change in some way that we view as being positive. We both have good arguments to back up our ideas, too, so we could argue till the Mississippi cows come home. =) I've enjoyed the discussion, and I will debate more if you think it'd be a learning experience, but I am getting to the point where I feel like...well, it's distracting me from my schoolwork! So, off I go to learn how to teach, and maybe someday I'll have a little Johnny with two Mommies, and I'll present ideas on his situation (if need be) more objectively because of this discussion.
Best,
Marybeth from Texas

I'm not sure what you're talking about, actually. A Scientific, MEDICAL fact? Really? How so? Let's get medical! =)

You're welcome to check my figures; several reputable scientific studies with no axe to grind will confirm that the average homosexual male dies before age 50, about 20 years before their heterosexual counterparts. There are plenty more statistics that paint a similarly grim picture, but it's 2 AM and I'm too tired to look them all up.

Here's a perfect example of how liberalism is so often devoid of all logic: Liberals are determined to save us all from the evil of tobacco. Those same liberals, however, celebrate homosexuality. The latter is twice as deadly. (Smoking knocks 10 years off your life.)

Over and out.

MM

That's no evidence, actually. You're studies are correleational. It's like concluding that black people are genetically-inferior BECAUSE there is currently such a performance gap between races. When you conduct a scientific expeiment, you have to elimatinate all other potential variables before you can conclude that one particular thing causes another. This study, or these studies, could very well have found these results. But what didn't they eliminate? There is nothing to show that the act of engaging in homosexual acts CAUSES premature death (it COULD be caused by soemthing else within the culture, such as a higher prevalence of drug use--and this drug use prevalence could be caused by a million different factors I could think of) just like your conclusion that this is the problem with liberalism isn't backed up by a good argument. (Though yours is an opinion, so that's not a great comparison!) Facts and figures such as this are the result of botchy "science". It's not that I'm not open to it--but if you're going to cite research, at least understand how research is used and how easily it can be botched science. Such a study doesn't conclude what you seem to think it does.

I was really interested to know what medical "facts" you had in store. All you had were correlational statistics. How disappointing, MM.

Okay, it's been nice debating so far, but you haven't reacted in awhile. I'm really interested in your reaction to my take on such studies, or anything else on the matter(s). See, you could argue against what I'm saying, swallow your political and culturally-affiliated pride and undergo a conceptual change because you are receptive to varying viewpoints and are intelligent, end the conversation (wimp out! teehee) by saying goodbye, or ignore these messages (wimp out!).

MB, I'm working 80 hours a week right now, have worked in three countries (one of them China) in the past two weeks, and have simply lost the energy necessary to debate.

Plus, I don't think there's any chance of anything substantive coming from our debates at this point.

Ciao...

MM

I wasn't trying to criticize you as a person or label you as a "bad FReeper." At the time of my reply, I thought you were addressing my post regarding children in schools needing teachers who address the "whole child," and who don't merely spout facts and figures and ignore the human aspect of the profession (the needs of children in particular). And I thought that your reply, if addressed to me, didn't take into account any of the arguments I made. It simply washed over the whole thing. What can you say to something like that..? Other than what I'm saying now, all you can say is "Okay, fine." There's no debate in it. It does irk me...but it's your FReeper right to post whatever you want, and I know it.

I guess it's your FReeper right to post what you want so long as you don't upset the FReeper authority in the wrong way. . I'm not attached to FR, but it's been interesting thus far, even though my former debate fizzled out. =)