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Russians Outlaw Criticism of Govt on Internet
neekas backlog ^ | 1/27/05 | neeka

Posted on 01/28/2005 6:45:05 AM PST by blackminorcapullets

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To: TapTheSource

Lets see, there were almost a half dozen people, ranging from Putin, to ultra nationalists, to Oligarches to communists. Fact is, the people had a choice and they choose. You hate their choice, that's all there is to say.


101 posted on 01/30/2005 8:41:28 PM PST by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: blackminorcapullets

I don't have an opinion because outside of some demonstrations I never fired an M-14 and I never made claims to having fired one, let alone used it in combat. I'm not that old. But I'm sure you are and you used it in combat, right?


102 posted on 01/30/2005 8:44:41 PM PST by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: TapTheSource

"Again, please cite your sources. When exactly did Pacepa run afoul with his Communist masters???"

So, if we believe Pacepa, as you suggest we should. You know, that this is a plot of the Soviet Union, and old commies haven't faded away. Then why would we support a guy who accepted his rank back from a guy he called a tool of the KGB and just how the hell did he earn 3 million dollars during a communist regime?

"The former head of the Romanian espionage, Ion Mihai Pacepa, was restored the rank of reservist general, according to officials of the Foreign Intelligence Service (SIE). The director of SIE, Gheorghe Fulga, granted Ion Mihai Pacepa the general rank in the last days of Ion Iliescu's term of office as president of Romania. After the High Court of Cassation and Justice's ruling remained final, the former head of state gave the green light for Pacepa to be restored all his rights and privileges. Culture Minister Mona Musca said on Wednesday that she agrees that the head of the communist-era espionage get back his paintings seized by the communist regime after he fled the country. In 1999, Ion Mihai Pacepa, who is currently living in the United States, was rehabilitated by the Supreme Court of Justice, which ruled that his entire wealth, estimated to 3 million dollars, be restored."

So, if we believe the warnings of Pacepa, then we should definitely suspect him since he's gone back to his old cronies in the rank of reserve general. Nice that he'll be able to spend some of the 3 million he earned in a communist country when the average salary was about 40 dollars a month.


103 posted on 01/30/2005 8:56:03 PM PST by koba37
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To: blackminorcapullets
Hey, stupid .... ever heard of the M1??? The Garand?

The greatest battle implement ever devised.

NEVER EVER POST TO ME AGAIN BECAUSE YOU ARE A FOOL AND A TROLL!

104 posted on 01/30/2005 9:09:13 PM PST by Lion in Winter (grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... LION IS HERE... I DESPISE BIGOTS AND TROUBLE MAKERS!!)
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To: jb6

MAIL CALL!! Ck. your freep mail.


105 posted on 01/30/2005 9:18:36 PM PST by Lion in Winter (grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... LION IS HERE... I DESPISE BIGOTS AND TROUBLE MAKERS!!)
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To: koba37
"So, if we believe the warnings of Pacepa, then we should definitely suspect him since he's gone back to his old cronies in the rank of reserve general. Nice that he'll be able to spend some of the 3 million he earned in a communist country when the average salary was about 40 dollars a month."

I suggest you carefully study Lenin's NEP policy, the WIN and TRUST operations...well, we'll just leave it at that for now. As head of Romanian intelligence, Pacepa enjoyed the privileged status only enjoyed by the Communist elite. He had to leave all that behind when he defected. They are just trying to lure him back, just as the Soviets lured emigres back during the WIN and TRUST operations (and then liquidated them when the operations were folded). You have yet to show me documents that prove Pacepa "ran afoul" of his Communist masters before he defected. And please, if you are going to lay quotes on me, cite your sources. I cite everything I post so other people can check my facts. Why do you post quotations with no references?
106 posted on 01/30/2005 9:18:50 PM PST by TapTheSource
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To: jb6
"Not according to the OSCE and US observers, unless of course you are actively suggesting that President Bush would help Putin rig an election. Are you?"

Of course he is.... soros pays these trolls to come on FR and try to start the COLD War again. Russia has a warrant for soros' arrest for fraud... he needs the present govt. of Russia to collapse so he can get off scott free and get back into Russia and steal MORE money from the Russian people.

THE COLD WAR IS OVER!! HUZZAH!!

Russia is a sovereign country and I have high hopes that it will get better and better and more Christians and Jews will pave the way for its success.

107 posted on 01/30/2005 9:26:46 PM PST by Lion in Winter (grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... LION IS HERE... I DESPISE BIGOTS AND TROUBLE MAKERS!!)
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To: jb6; koba37

"Lets see, there were almost a half dozen people, ranging from Putin, to ultra nationalists, to Oligarches to communists. Fact is, the people had a choice and they choose. You hate their choice, that's all there is to say."

Putin = KGB = Communist

Ultra nationalists = KGB = Communist

Communists = Communist

...as for the oligarches, please supply the names of the Oligarches you have in mind and I bet every one of them comes from the KGB and/or the Communist elite (which = Communist).


108 posted on 01/30/2005 9:27:25 PM PST by TapTheSource
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To: TapTheSource
Putin is a Communist/KGB president...a real Communist, as opposed to naive street-level Communists who have most likely been tasked to "oppose" him in order to build his credibility amongst the Russian people (who, I am sure we will both agree, hate the Communists). Wasn't it Hitler who said "The German people have no idea of the extent they had to be gulled in order to be led." Same principle applies here IMO. Read Golitsyn...but don't let them catch you reading him in the Soviet Union/Russia (wouldn't be good for you health).

You really are consumed with hatred. I hate to kill your conspiracy theory, but it is below the point of stupidity to say Putin is a communist. Have you ever been to Russia? I ask because your ignorance of the country is amazing. I travel to and from Russia, and would not hesitate for one second reading any books I desire. Likewise, I would not hesitate criticizing Putin if I felt like it. You really need to quit reading Hal Lindsay and John Birch material.
109 posted on 01/30/2005 9:28:42 PM PST by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: TapTheSource; blackminorcapullets

Yes, more censorship is likely on the way in the Russian Federation. The self-censorship by the site owners in question is in anticipation of government censorship, and that's probably why it has such an appearance of officiousness. Here's some information from another site.

http://www.brama.com/survey/messages/37988.html
Excerpt:
"The argument of the governor of Moscow has been supported by deputy head of federal agency for press and mass communications (Rospechat, former Ministry of Press) Andrei Romanchenko. During his Wednesday's speech at the conference entitled "Information security of Russia in global information age," he proposed to create a unified system of the so-called 'content filtering' in Russia."
[...]
"One of the creators of the project 'Stikhi.Ru' Dmitry Kravchuk comments: 'Lately, we"ve been hearing about the importance of regulating the Internet from states' authorities and politicians alike. We simply wanted to forestall the situation in order to avoid running into problems in future. Clearly, we will be unable to scan and filter the entire content momentarily. That is why the decision has been reached to take action first before the government does.and form a model within our site for now.'"

"Read the original in Russian: (Translated by: Anna Ossipova)"

"Pravda.Ru"


110 posted on 01/30/2005 9:31:07 PM PST by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: familyop; Destro; Lion in Winter; GarySpFc
Yes, more censorship is likely on the way in the Russian Federation. The self-censorship by the site owners in question is in anticipation of government censorship, and that's probably why it has such an appearance of officiousness. Here's some information from another site

Oh good God, you're stretching this beyond rediculous. Then is FR's censorship of certain articles a sign of more censorship to come from the US government? Or do you apply double standards to your posts?

111 posted on 01/30/2005 9:36:03 PM PST by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: GarySpFc

"I would not hesitate criticizing Putin if I felt like it."

But you wont, because Putin can do no wrong in your eyes. Putin makes common cause with Iran...you say nothing. Putin makes common cause with Syria...you say nothing. Putin makes common cause with Vietnam...you say nothing. Putin makes common cause with Hugo Chavez' Venezuela...you say nothing. Putin opposes the US in Iraq (and supplies Saddam's forces weapons to kill our soldiers)...you say nothing. If you love Russia so much, move there. Oh that's right, you already live there part time. Why not full time???


112 posted on 01/30/2005 9:38:10 PM PST by TapTheSource
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To: familyop

Thanks familyop,

As usual, your post is TIMELY, TRUTHFUL and IMPORTANT--TTS


113 posted on 01/30/2005 9:40:09 PM PST by TapTheSource
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To: jb6; TapTheSource; blackminorcapullets
I was referring to the quotations of the Governor of Moscow and Dmitry Kravchuk of Stikhi.Ru. It appears that you failed to read those quotations, or more likely, that you deny seeing them in front of you.

http://www.brama.com/survey/messages/37988.html
Excerpt:
"The argument of the governor of Moscow has been supported by deputy head of federal agency for press and mass communications (Rospechat, former Ministry of Press) Andrei Romanchenko. During his Wednesday's speech at the conference entitled "Information security of Russia in global information age," he proposed to create a unified system of the so-called 'content filtering' in Russia."
[...]
"One of the creators of the project 'Stikhi.Ru' Dmitry Kravchuk comments: 'Lately, we"ve been hearing about the importance of regulating the Internet from states' authorities and politicians alike. We simply wanted to forestall the situation in order to avoid running into problems in future. Clearly, we will be unable to scan and filter the entire content momentarily. That is why the decision has been reached to take action first before the government does.and form a model within our site for now.'"

"Read the original in Russian: (Translated by: Anna Ossipova)"

"Pravda.Ru"
114 posted on 01/30/2005 9:41:07 PM PST by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: familyop

I wouldn't count on jb6 grasping the facts and import of your post...he's still shadowboxing stuff that happened almost a hundred posts ago.


115 posted on 01/30/2005 9:48:31 PM PST by TapTheSource
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To: TapTheSource
But you wont, because Putin can do no wrong in your eyes. Putin makes common cause with Iran...you say nothing. Putin makes common cause with Syria...you say nothing. Putin makes common cause with Vietnam...you say nothing. Putin makes common cause with Hugo Chavez' Venezuela...you say nothing. Putin opposes the US in Iraq (and supplies Saddam's forces weapons to kill our soldiers)...you say nothing. If you love Russia so much, move there. Oh that's right, you already live there part time. Why not full time???

I will not criticize Putin for what the U.S. does. To do otherwise would be hypocricsy. As for selling nukes to Iran, that is a light water nuke, which is what WJC gave to North Korea. As for Syria Putin did not sell the missiles which Israel objected to. I have no problem with Putin selling whatever he wants to Vietnam, because the war has been over for 30 years. He can sell whatever he wants to Chavez, because anything they get we can easily overcome. Finally, it was my buddies fighting and dying in Iraq, and so if anyone should object it would be me. However, I know most of those were sold long prior to our war with Iraq. Some were sold by former members of the CIS, not Russia. I also happen to know Russia provided us with some intelligence prior to the war. Yes, I spend time in Russia, but live mainly in America. So? I noticed you did not answer my question as to if you have ever been there, but then I already knew the answer.
116 posted on 01/30/2005 9:51:01 PM PST by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: jb6; TapTheSource; blackminorcapullets
I missed a quotation of the Governor of Moscow in my first comment. It is included below.

"As far as content filtering of the Internet is concerned, State's politics intends to offer the public its services to protect them against harmful and unlawful content," stated Romanchenko as reported by Interfax.

http://www.brama.com/survey/messages/37988.html
Excerpt:
"The argument of the governor of Moscow has been supported by deputy head of federal agency for press and mass communications (Rospechat, former Ministry of Press) Andrei Romanchenko. During his Wednesday's speech at the conference entitled "Information security of Russia in global information age," he proposed to create a unified system of the so-called 'content filtering' in Russia."
[...]
"One of the creators of the project 'Stikhi.Ru' Dmitry Kravchuk comments: 'Lately, we"ve been hearing about the importance of regulating the Internet from states' authorities and politicians alike. We simply wanted to forestall the situation in order to avoid running into problems in future. Clearly, we will be unable to scan and filter the entire content momentarily. That is why the decision has been reached to take action first before the government does.and form a model within our site for now.'"

"Read the original in Russian: (Translated by: Anna Ossipova)"

"Pravda.Ru"

It's interesting that Mr. Kravchuk reacted with such official language against criticizing government officials, and that other Russian writers are telling us that the worst is about to happen.

We are concerned, as censorship against criticisms of government was practiced in Russia even before the Soviet Union. And Cubans continue to be imprisoned for criticizing their government.
117 posted on 01/30/2005 9:59:56 PM PST by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: GarySpFc

Nope, never been there. But almost all my information derives from Russians. But you, having been there, haven't been able to learn a thing. I can only imagine what your arguments would have looked like during the Cold War..."Evil Empire! You don't know what your talking about. Have you ever been there? Don't bother answering, I already know the answer." Blah, blah, blah.


118 posted on 01/30/2005 10:02:57 PM PST by TapTheSource
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To: familyop

"It's interesting that Mr. Kravchuk reacted with such official language against criticizing government officials, and that other Russian writers are telling us that the worst is about to happen."

You made your point and cited your sources. Now the Russophiles on this thread are faced with a dilemma. Should they expend energy desperately trying to find a stray article (needle in a haystack) to refute you, or resort to what they know best...ad hominym attack. This should be interesting.


119 posted on 01/30/2005 10:11:54 PM PST by TapTheSource
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To: TapTheSource

I see--so much emotion involved. Russia needs a good economy, but most rich countries are so far from it. Many western Europeans, who are closer to Russia, are personally afraid to be there. At the same time, we disagree with the RF regarding arms trade with terrorist regimes like Iran and Syria, seeing freedoms taken away from its citizens, and the like.

While working for an employer a few years ago, I delivered products to a small business that employed a few Russian former combat soldiers. Seeing that I was also a former soldier (as we who were once combat line can often see), they were very much on edge during the first few deliveries. But they learned to trust and to relax, in time. They appeared to be clean-cut and generally clean, although their Greek boss did not.


120 posted on 01/30/2005 10:16:04 PM PST by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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