Posted on 12/17/2004 8:33:59 AM PST by jveritas
C'mon, admit it. You're just pi$$ed because we can't be conned into believing that MAYBE that stinking, lame, open-borders pseudo-conservative that you worship is actually going to do something to diminish the illegal invasion of our borders.
Unreal. Good luck, I must sign off for the day and get to work!
Why waste the bandwidth with a rant?
I am the one who is discussing facts. Did you read my post and what is your objection to my post. List it all.
President Bush Guest Work Program is part of a larger solution, what is lacking so far is how to strengthen the Southern borders and how to prevent non US citizens from accessing the state and federal welfare programs.
Savagely bashing Bush's savagely bad ideas about border security and immigration does not equal savagely bashing Bush.
The illegal immigration issue is an important discussion forum that we need to debate on FR, but the style and the content of the debate as appeared in many posts have been filled with a despicable hatred toward President Bush.
Hating Bush's stupid policies on border security and immigration does not equal despicable hatred toward President Bush.
Many who disagree with President Bush illegal immigration issue are “True Conservatives” and “Faithful Republicans”, but they do it in a constructive criticism rather than hateful speeches. On the other hand, the perpetrators of these hateful posts are the Buchananites and the 3rd party voters.
I've been called a Buchananite and a 3rd party voter too many times by too many idiots. While I agree with Buchanan on a number of things, I disagree on a similar number. However, he's not the horrible person many people here want to pretend he is when they "savagely bash" him with their "despicable hatred." I'm also not a 3rd party voter, I'm actually a Reagan Republican, a Republican Precinct Committeeman, and the elected President (for the past two years) of a Republican Club in Arizona. I've worked on the campaigns of several Republicans, was a Republican delegate to the last State Republican Convention and I have been elected a Committeeman to the next State Republican Statutory Meeting in January. I'm sure that my background is similar to others who a.)don't irrationally demonize Pat Buchanan and b.)don't support the President's idiotic border security and immigration policies and proposals. Questioning our Republican credentials does not serve your argument (whatever it is).
Illegal immigration is a vital issue that our nation needs to deal with. President Bush has suggested the “Guest Worker Program” which is in some ways a “practical” and “effective” solution to address some but not all of the problems of the 10-15 millions illegal immigrants in the US. However the President still does not address in a clear way what are the effective measures that we need to take to strengthen the control of the Southern borders, and prevent new waves of illegal immigrants coming to the country everyday through the Mexican borders. Also what must be urgently addressed is the abuse perpetuated by many illegal immigrants of states and federal welfare programs. The Guest Worker Program must be very clear that immigrants who are employed under this program are not entitled to welfare help, period.
The President's "Guest Worker Program" is a form of amnesty for illegal aliens. Rewarding lawbreakers with jobs, citizenship, and social security benefits is flat wrong. If a Democrat president was suggesting this you would be calling for his head. Bush suggests it and you start to ponder whether it might, somehow, in some bizarro universe, be a good idea that should be supported by rank and file Republicans.
Now the extreme fringe on FR, want to use the most radical and the dumbest ways to solve the illegal immigration issue. The wackiest of their wacky ideas, is to deport all the illegal immigrants. What a great solution! What this fringe do not take comprehend is that deporting 10 to 15 millions illegal immigrants, require that the states and the federal law enforcement agencies must hire tens of thousand of people and must spend tens if not hundred of billions of dollars to do it, and it will not work. Make no doubt about it that the media will be abusing these scenes of deportation thousand folds than anything they have used and abused in the past. The vast majority of the Americans will not accept days after days of images and videos of the millions of illegal immigrants being put in buses and deported. The courts will be tied up in ten of thousands of cases regarding deporting illegal immigrants and this will cost ten of billions of dollars as well. Eventually, these extreme radical and illogical measures will create a tremendous backlash that will destroy any honest effort to fix the illegal immigration problems.
You've made quite a few bad assumptions here. There are intelligent people talking about ways to make the illegal aliens deport themselves. If you remove the incentive by actually starting to enforce the immigration laws on the books they would deport themselves pretty quickly. Enforcing the laws is neither extreme, radical, nor illogical. I posit that our lack of border security since 9/11 coupled with our refusal to enforce our own immigration laws is extreme, radical and illogical and will lead to the destruction of our nation as we know it.
Another delusional idea to resolve the illegal immigration issue is to heavily fine the businesses who hire illegal immigrants and by doing so these immigrants will return back home because no one is hiring them. WOW! Another genius solution! This idea is as moronic as the deporting the millions of illegal immigrants because it requires tens of thousands of new law enforcement agents and tens of billions of dollars, plus it will be played very badly in the arena of public opinion. Furthermore a very strong sector of the business community will fight it to death and they will not let it happen, period.
I guess you think all of those businesses should be exempt from paying their taxes too. What other laws should businesses be allowed to ignore? What other laws should stop being enforced? Should the cheap labor lobby determine our border and national security status!? It is you who is "delusional"!
In conclusion there is only one logical and practical solution to resolve the illegal immigration problem. Legalize the illegal immigrants via a guest worker program, and at the same type stop new and future waves of illegal immigrants by strongly controlling and tightening the Southern borders.
Sure, reward the invaders with amnesty, jobs, citizenship, and social security and all of the rest of the potential invaders will just sit quietly at home and start respecting our border. Right...
Enough with the hate Bush threads disguised under the illegal immigration issue. Let us discuss this important issue in an honest, smart, logical and constructive way and let us stop the irrational hateful posts.
Enough with the idiotic pro-amnesty, pro-lawbreaker, anti-border security, pro-open borders apologist vanity threads posted by dishonest, stupid, illogical, and irrational posters.
This crap has got to stop. Maybe you don't see the problem from my angle. I live on the U.S./Mexican border and I can see the problem first hand. The solution is simple - enforce the laws and secure the border from invasion. Anything else is lawless, unconstitutional national suicide. I don't care if the President is Clinton, Kerry, Kennedy, Bush, Reagan, or whomever. The immigration and border security nonsense coming from the White House at this point in time is insane.
LOL! You should read more:
S. 1685, the Basic Pilot Extension Act of 2003, was signed by President Bush on December 3, 2003.
By December of 2004, every business in America will have a nearly sure-fire way to verify if a new employee is an illegal alien or has the right to work in America.
Most importantly, no business in America will have an excuse for hiring illegals.
Right now , the job of trying to figure out if the ID shown by a new employee is a counterfeit or not is just daunting. That is sometimes a legitimate excuse and sometimes a smokescreen for why so many businesses have illegal aliens working for them. But with the new system, businesses merely use existing documents (social security cards and alien identification cards) and existing databases (SSA and BCIS databases) to verify employment eligibility. An employer using the system simply calls an 800 number, provides the name and the Social Security number or the alien ID number, as presented by the new hire, and then he receives either a confirmation indicating that the worker is authorized to work in the US or a tentative non-confirmation if the number and name provided do not match SSA or BCIS data. In the case of a tentative non-confirmation, the new hire has the right to contact SSA or BCIS and try to fix the problem BEFORE the employer may fire the new hire.
Dreier Delivers Floor Statement Regarding Illegal Immigration and the Bonner Plan"In fact, Mr. Speaker, T.J. Bonner, a 26-year veteran of the Border Patrol, and President of the National Border Patrol Council, estimates that we can eliminate as much as 98 percent of illegal border crossings if we can give employers access to verifiable identity information on prospective employees and if we crack down on employers who hire illegal workers. 98 percent is a remarkable number, and it would allow the Border Patrol to focus on targeting criminal aliens and terrorists.
"Because of this, Mr. Speaker, I introduced H.R. 5111, the Bonner Plan, to improve the security of our Social Security cards and provide a method by which employers could immediately verify the authenticity of that Social Security card. My bill would also increase fines for hiring an illegal worker by 400 percent, and provide for prison sentences of up to 5 years per count.
Do you think the President Bush and House Rules Chairman David Dreier are "delusional" or "moronic?"
The question is what to do with the millions of illegal immigrants that are already here?! I think the Guest worker program is a good solution for this part of the illegal immigration problem.
History has proved that legalizing illegal aliens is the wrong approach because it encourages future influxes of new illegal aliens.
Every time.
Oh no! What do we do about the millions of cars stolen every year by "undocumented car owners" (car thieves)!!? I'm absolutely sure that we need to continue enforcing the laws against stealing cars and NOT allowing the thieves to keep the cars or drive them as "guest drivers". Do you think it is extreme, radical, or illogical to continue to enforce those laws? Should car thieves be able to keep their cars or should we still take their cars away and imprison the thief?
Yes! All must worship Bush! Dissent will not be tolerated!
all 15 million have commited a crime by crossing the border, i belive its a felony.
"This was a repsonse to the delusional Buchananites who are spewing hate all over the place."
You're full of s**t, not only on this issue but your entire rant!
Getting rid of the illegals is the most important issue facing this nation and i'm not talking only about the 80% that are from Central and South America, it's all of them!
Attack the employers and eliminate social services and they will leave or starve to death, I don't care which!
The Guest worker program will force them to pay taxes.
How are you going to find out who are the ten of thousands of employers who are employing illegal immigrants? How many ten of thousands of NEW law enforcement agents are going to go from town to town from city to city from street to street to find these employers that are hiring illegal immigrants?
Get real.
Take your guest worker program and shove it where the sun doesn't shine!
Dut off welfare and social programs to citizens and make them do the "work that americans won't do"!
That would debunk claims that illegal aliens put more money into the system than they take out.
The Guest worker program will force them to pay taxes.
Legalizing illegal aliens rewards them at the expense of those waiting to come into our country legally. When you reward lawbreaking you encourage it.
Every time we've ever legalized illegal aliens their numbers have increased. The solution you offer is guaranteed to make the problem worse.
You claimed in your article that employer enforcement was "delusional" and "moronic" and wildly expensive. I posted information to you that President Bush has already established a voluntary program for workplace verification of workers' eligibility, and that Congressman Dreier has introduced legislation to make that verification mandatory, with stiff fines for noncompliance.
Are you ready to retract your statements about employer sanctions?
I doesn't take that many employers serving prison terms to make the rest comply. That includes homeowners that hire at the curb for $8/hr plus, lock them all up!
I seriously mean every work I typed!
I have no idea who or where he is!
Don't give them any ideas Spiff. Next they'll suggest the owners of the stolen cars fix, repair and pay the insurance for the thieves that stole their cars.
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