CARBON DATING UNDERCUTS EVOLUTION'S LONG AGES

ICR ^ | October, 2003 | John Baumgardner

[Alter Kaker]

The Christian geologist figures that if G-- could create a man, He could create an earth that appears to be millions of years old.

You're saying that G-- would lie to Man? That the Lord would try trick us? I am simple, G--fearing man, and I find alternative to evolution more scary than evolution. I put my faith in my G--.

[HalfFull]

The contamination Vade's talking about is rain

Really...must be alot of rain to penetrate all fossils with equal amount of C14.

[goodseedhomeschool (returned)]

I wish vade could be nice just on one thread, one time, jeesh.

[f.Christian]

The smart idea for faithful people is to recognize there is no conflict between Genesis and science.

The smart idea for faithful people is to recognize there is no conflict between Genesis and evolution (( science )) .

No conflict ...SUUUUURRRE !

[Maria S]

"The fact that he didn't spell it out exactly so you can understand evolution in the few chapters in Genisis, doens't mean he didn't do it."

Actually He DID spell it out in "Genisis" [as you spell it]: fish and fowl were created first, then the beasts of the field, then man. The creating didn't occur over ages; it occurred on specific days. God created the light "Day", and the darkness "Night". And the evening and the morning were the first day.

[narby]

One eliminates the other ... theism - creation ... vs ... atheism - evolution --- unless your schizoid !

I think I understand your point.

But I disagree. There is nothing mutually exclusive about the existence of God, and evolution.

[LittleJoe]

I just don't get it.

The need to "prove" a bible story, that is.

I prefer Gilgamesh myself. At least we know who the author is.

[StatesEnemy]

Many people share your opinion, but it seems the amount of C14 can still be measured in fossils that are supposted to be many million of years old. Since C14 cannot be measured more than 20,000 years or so, what is your explanation?

Ummm, we don't understand (as much as we think we do) the absorption of C14. Perhaps there is a mechanism which can 'contaminate' fossils.

[Prodigal Son]

They may be ectinct now, just as many creatures are.

They may be extinct now or they are?

And what makes you think they were babies? Noah would've built the ark to any specifications because he was acting on explicit instructions. In theory (LOL, I know that word is anathema to some), Noah would've built an ark the size of an aircraft carrier if necessary or built forges to create steel if it were so deemed to be needed. If the dinosaurs were going to go extinct in such a short timeline, why would Noah bother to include them on the vessel?

[goodseedhomeschool (returned)]

LittleJoe, the bible is being attacked every day. Kids are losing their faith all the time to what I consider to be a lie (evolution), don't you see why we feel it needs to be defended? The evidence we see all around us corresponds acuratly with scripture and yet, it seems some will go out of their way to try to disprove it. That is how evolution came to be in the first place.

[MontanaBeth]

You know I thought it was an interesting article (which I read all the way to conclusion), I am not arguing creation here just the fact that the arguments being put forth were neither debate or conversation but shrill demands to be right. It was an interesting article. If you are feeling attacked by me I assure you none was intended. I was commenting on the "noise" of this discussion.

[VadeRetro]

When ICR says there "should" be no modern carbon, they're using their own strawman.

Most of these papers acknowledge that most of the 14C in the samples studied appear to be intrinsic to the samples themselves, and they usually offer no explanation for its origin.

"Usually?" Taking advantage of a hopelessly credulous audience, ICR imputes the lack of explanation as something sinister. And what is the explanation ICR forgot to mention? Was it, "It's because the Earth is really young and Genesis is literally true but we're in a conspiracy to suppress that?"

Most scientists are aware that carbon is a dirt-common and highly reactive element. It gets around.

[goodseedhomeschool (returned)]

I would think all the animals were young. They sleep more, eat less and are easier to manage. Don't forget God told Noah to bring in two of each "kind" not "species". SPeciation was not an issue.

[narby]

fish and fowl were created first, then the beasts of the field, then man.

Exactly the same sequence as evolution says they were created.

Just as the separation of the days and nights come before that part.

If you read Genesis with a scientific eye, it actually has a significant correlation with science. It's hard to imagine how the ancients who recorded Genesis could come that close, unless it came from divine inspiration.

But, like all inspiration, it gets transmitted through the hand and language of man, and thereby the apparent conflicts are generated.

My point is that there are no contradictions.

If you can read the different Gospels, and reconcile the differences between them, then you can study evolution, and reconcile the difference between it and Genesis.

[HalfFull]

The need to "prove" a bible story, that is.

I don't need to prove it at all. I'm just interested when the facts back up what I would expect to see if the flood of NOAH did occur.

[goodseedhomeschool (returned)]

The reason that theistic evolution is a problem is because the bible tells us there was no death before sin. Adam's sin. Adam was the first man. Hugh Ross thinks there was a whole other race before Adam and that is not scriptural.

[f.Christian]

Evolution ... have your pie --- and eat it too !

No tradeoffs ... pure bs !

[VadeRetro]

Oh, I understand you quite well, Vade. Why not just call the researchers liars and dishonest...what's holding you back this time?

The only problem is ICR's utterly dishonest spin. Carbon is perfectly good out to about 50K years. After that, you get nothing but noise. ICR is lawyering on the noise floor, hoping to troll in a few suckers.

Note that even 50K years, or even 20K years, is still too old for your literal Genesis interpretation. And there's a perfectly mundane explanation for the non-zero carbon noise floor. And the idea that the trilobites, the dinosaurs, and the mammals were contemporaries was discredited before it was ever first uttered.

[Young Werther]

God Created the Heavens and the Earth.

His days amounted to .85 Billion years and I can prove it. He created carbon 14 analysis and I can prove it. He created evolution and I can prove it. The bible is ,(new testament), is less than 2000 years old and I can prove it! Nowhere did God find it necessary to tell his age. He has a drivers license and he can prove it but he doesn't have to!

Radioactive dating of stones dates back to Madam Curie and predates carbon dating. At that point the measuring of Radioactive thorium and uranium give an age larger that 1 Billion. This argument was over, it was settled over 100 years ago!

[Alter Kaker]

Genesis make no mention of animals. Did G-- punish deer for action of Adam and Eve? Do deer die because of forbidden fruit?