Posted on 07/09/2003 12:08:32 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
Dry your eyes, little girl. I included you in the to: line for that message, and I have no idea of your schedule.
Why, you shameless little liar!
In the table below, all of the material I quoted from the 6th Edition is matched with the corresponding material from the 1st Edition. I have highlighted, in red, the only substantive addition in the 6th edition, where Darwin provides some data from experiments only (but nevertheless) alluded to in the 1st edition.
| 6th Edition | 1st Edition |
|---|---|
| Believing that it is always best to study some special group, I have, after deliberation, taken up domestic pigeons. I have kept every breed which I could purchase or obtain, and have been most kindly favoured with skins from several quarters of the world, more especially by the Hon. W. Elliot from India, and by the Hon. C. Murray from Persia. Many treatises in different languages have been published on pigeons, and some of them are very important, as being of considerable antiquity. I have associated with several eminent fanciers, and have been permitted to join two of the London Pigeon Clubs.... | Believing that it is always best to study some special group, I have, after deliberation, taken up domestic pigeons. I have kept every breed which I could purchase or obtain, and have been most kindly favoured with skins from several quarters of the world, more especially by the Honourable W. Elliot from India, and by the Honourable C. Murray from Persia. Many treatises in different languages have been published on pigeons, and some of them are very important, as being of considerable antiquity. I have associated with several eminent fanciers, and have been permitted to join two of the London Pigeon Clubs... |
| In the skeletons of the several breeds, the development of the bones of the face, in length and breadth and curvature, differs enormously. The shape, as well as the breadth and length of the ramus of the lower jaw, varies in a highly remarkable manner. The caudal and sacral vertebrae vary in number; as does the number of the ribs, together with their relative breadth and the presence of processes. The size and shape of the apertures in the sternum are highly variable; so is the degree of divergence and relative size of the two arms of the furcula. The proportional width of the gape of mouth, the proportional length of the eyelids, of the orifice of the nostrils, of the tongue... | In the skeletons of the several breeds, the development of the bones of the face in length and breadth and curvature differs enormously. The shape, as well as the breadth and length of the ramus of the lower jaw, varies in a highly remarkable manner. The number of the caudal and sacral vertebrae vary; as does the number of the ribs, together with their relative breadth and the presence of processes. The size and shape of the apertures in the sternum are highly variable; so is the degree of divergence and relative size of the two arms of the furcula. The proportional width of the gape of mouth, the proportional length of the eyelids, of the orifice of the nostrils, of the tongue... |
| Great as are the differences between the breeds of the pigeon, I am fully convinced that the common opinion of naturalists is correct, namely, that all are descended from the rock-pigeon (Columba livia), including under this term several geographical races or sub-species, which differ from each other in the most trifling respects.... | Great as the differences are between the breeds of pigeons, I am fully convinced that the common opinion of naturalists is correct, namely, that all have descended from the rock-pigeon (Columba livia), including under this term several geographical races or sub-species, which differ from each other in the most trifling respects.... |
| Some facts in regard to the colouring of pigeons well deserve consideration. The rock-pigeon is of a slaty-blue, with white loins; but the Indian sub-species, C. intermedia... | Some facts in regard to the colouring of pigeons well deserve consideration. The rock-pigeon is of a slaty-blue, and has a white rump (the Indian sub-species, C. intermedia... |
| To give one instance out of several which I have observed: I crossed some white fantails, which breed very true, with some black barbs-- and it so happens that blue varieties of barbs are so rare that I never heard of an instance in England; and the mongrels were black, brown and mottled. I also crossed a barb with a spot, which is a white bird with a red tail and red spot on the forehead, and which notoriously breeds very true; the mongrels were dusky and mottled. I then crossed one of the mongrel barb-fantails with a mongrel barb-spot, and they produced a bird of as beautiful a blue colour, with the white loins, double black wing-bar, and barred and white-edged tail-feathers, as any wild rock-pigeon! We can understand these facts, on the well-known principle of reversion to ancestral characters, if all the domestic breeds are descended from the rock-pigeon. But if we deny this, we must make one of the two following highly improbable suppositions. Either, first, that all the several imagined aboriginal stocks were coloured and marked like the rock-pigeon, although no other existing species is thus coloured and marked, so that in each separate breed there might be a tendency to revert to the very same colours and markings. Or, secondly, that each breed, even the purest, has within a dozen, or at most within a score, of generations, been crossed by the rock-pigeon: I say within a dozen or twenty generations, for no instance is known of crossed descendants reverting to an ancestor of foreign blood, removed by a greater number of generations.... | Moreover, when two birds belonging to two distinct breeds are crossed, neither of which is blue or has any of the above-specified marks, the mongrel offspring are very apt suddenly to acquire these characters; for instance, I crossed some uniformly white fantails with some uniformly black barbs, and they produced mottled brown and black birds; these I again crossed together, and one grandchild of the pure white fantail and pure black barb was of as beautiful a blue colour, with the white rump, double black wing-bar, and barred and white-edged tail-feathers, as any wild rock-pigeon! We can understand these facts, on the well-known principle of reversion to ancestral characters, if all the domestic breeds have descended from the rock-pigeon. But if we deny this, we must make one of the two following highly improbable suppositions. Either, firstly, that all the several imagined aboriginal stocks were coloured and marked like the rock-pigeon, although no other existing species is thus coloured and marked, so that in each separate breed there might be a tendency to revert to the very same colours and markings. Or, secondly, that each breed, even the purest, has within a dozen or, at most, within a score of generations, been crossed by the rock-pigeon: I say within a dozen or twenty generations, for we know of no fact countenancing the belief that the child ever reverts to some one ancestor, removed by a greater number of generations.... |
| Lastly, the hybrids or mongrels from between all the breeds of the pigeon are perfectly fertile, as I can state from my own observations, purposely made, on the most distinct breeds. | Lastly, the hybrids or mongrels from between all the domestic breeds of pigeons are perfectly fertile. I can state this from my own observations, purposely made on the most distinct breeds. |
| I am tempted to give one more instance showing how plants and animals, remote in the scale of nature, are bound together by a web of complex relations. I shall hereafter have occasion to show that the exotic Lobelia fulgens is never visited in my garden by insects, and consequently, from its peculiar structure, never sets a seed. Nearly all our orchidaceous plants absolutely require the visits of insects to remove their pollen-masses and thus to fertilise them. I find from experiments that humble-bees are almost indispensable to the fertilisation of the heartsease (Viola tricolor), for other bees do not visit this flower. I have also found that the visits of bees are necessary for the fertilisation of some kinds of clover; for instance twenty heads of Dutch clover (Trifolium repens) yielded 2,290 seeds, but twenty other heads, protected from bees, produced not one. Again, 100 heads of red clover (T. pratense) produced 2,700 seeds, but the same number of protected heads produced not a single seed. Humble bees alone visit red clover, as other bees cannot reach the nectar.... | I am tempted to give one more instance showing how plants and animals, most remote in the scale of nature, are bound together by a web of complex relations. I shall hereafter have occasion to show that the exotic Lobelia fulgens, in this part of England, is never visited by insects, and consequently, from its peculiar structure, never can set a seed. Many of our orchidaceous plants absolutely require the visits of moths to remove their pollen-masses and thus to fertilise them. I have, also, reason to believe that humble-bees are indispensable to the fertilisation of the heartsease (Viola tricolor), for other bees do not visit this flower. From experiments which I have tried, I have found that the visits of bees, if not indispensable, are at least highly beneficial to the fertilisation of our clovers; [language made more definite -- "are necessary" replacing "if not indispensable ... at least highly beneficial" -- and details of such experiments were added here in 6th Edition] but humble-bees alone visit the common red clover (Trifolium pratense), as other bees cannot reach the nectar.... |
Indeed. I caught the little hypocrite out in a flat-footed, blatant and unequivocal lie. See above.
Project Gutenberg Titles by Charles Darwin
http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/author?name=Darwin%2C%20Charles
Where to start. Hmmmmmm....
The Earth is tilted on its axis from the plane of the ecliptic by 23.5 degrees. That tilt causes the North Pole to be currently pointed towards Polaris. As the Earth moves around the sun its pole stays pointed at Polaris. This is the cause of the seasons we experience. Note. This tilt varies back and forth from 21.6 degrees to 24.5 degrees approximately every 41,000 years.
There is also a precession of our pole and it sweeps a complete circle in the sky (think of the Earth as a top wobbling as it rotates) about every 26,000 years. (Hard to explain without a diagram)
There are also a number of other motions that must be taken into effect over the years such as the precession of the aphelion. Our Earth’s orbit around the Sun is not a perfect circle. It is an ellipse with the closest point of the orbit called the perihelion and the furthest point the aphelion. Currently the aphelion falls on the fourth of July. However, this is not always the case. The aphelion and perihelion change over the centuries and sweeps thru the calendar year with a periodicity of around 22,000 years. The amount of “squishing” (LOL now that’s a scientific term) of an ellipse is called its eccentricity. Note; the Earth's eccentricity is very small. However, even this changes over time. Its eccentricity varies periodically about every 100,000 years.
There are also other motions caused by the Moon, Jupiter and the Sun called Nutations. One of the major nutations has a period of 18.6 years. (There are others that must be computed as well when flying a spacecraft)
Now that we have that out of the way, we will now describe the Celestial Sphere. If we look at the stars in the night sky they appear to be stationary relative to each other. Even with the Earth moving from one side of the Sun to the other, the displacement due to parallax is less than one second of arc even for the closest star. One way of looking at this, is a fixed sphere of stars surrounding the Earth/Sun system. This is often referred to as the Celestial Sphere.
However, over time the stars do move relative to each other and relative to the Earth. This is why the right ascension and declination (star location) changes over the years. If you look at a star catalogue based on the epoch B1950 and one base on the epoch J2000, you will find a difference.
Another interesting item of note is that the constellations we see are made up of the brightest stars. Even in the same constellation these stars are at different distances from the Earth. Some may be dimmer than the others, however, being closer they are just as bright as a larger one further away. The brightness of a star is called its magnitude. There are two ways astronomers measure magnitude. Apparent Magnitude and Absolute Magnitude.
The Apparent Magnitude is how bright a star appears to us hear on the Earth.
The Absolute Magnitude is how bright a star would appear if it were exactly ten parsecs away from the Earth. (Close to 33 light years).
Two notes:
1) Apparent magnitude is usually denoted with a small “m” and absolute magnitude uses a capital “M”.
2) The magnitude scale is backwards of what you might think; the larger the number the fainter the object.
WOW, now that we got thru all of that, we see that the stellar positions and our relationships to them vary over the centuries.
Yes of course I mentioned it. The guinea pig has a different mutation than we and the other apes do. Christian discussion of this issue See section 5. or other studies or another discussion that mentions guinea pigs and primates
Guess man and chimp descended from guinea pigs? Are guinea pigs the missing link?
Mocking it won't make it go away
First of all, it is not just men and monkeys
Monkeys can; it's the great apes, including people, that can't.
(an inactivated Vitamin C synthesis gene) has been found in one human so far and no apes
The claim here is that one person has been found who doesn't require vitamin C?
4. Maybe the Lord inserted those similarities for a reason we do not understand. They could even have been inserted as tests of our faith. The Lord does not force any to believe, but gives opportunity to doubt for those who are seeking it.
5. Another possibility is that the Lord, when he cursed Adam and Eve after the fall, also cursed all life by introducing errors into the DNA. One could expect that similar species were cursed in a similar way, out of fairness.
OK, similar species were cursed in the same way out of a sense of fairness: did some chimp taste the forbidden fruit? This has to be the silliest thing I've seen in a while.
if primates closely related to humans have the SAME crippling mutations in their LGGLO pseudogenes as we see in the human pseudogenes, this finding would support the evolutionary model. As I pointed out, the data on this question are not yet available for the LGGLO pseudogenes, but in other shared pseudogenes identical crippling mutations clearly favor evolution
OK, so the other genetic details, DO favor evolution?!
Somehow, I had a feeling that you would bring this up again. Evolutionists have a way of continuing to use 'evidence' which has already been disproven
Where exactly was what disproven? The claim is that there is a shared mutation in the great apes, specifically a missing base pair in the LGGLO gene necessary for ascorbic acid synthesis. Is there or not?
...the moth fraud ...
What fraud? Was there or was there not a change in the colour of moths in industrialized Britain? The claim that mounting light and dark moth specimems on bark, to show the difference that the bird predators saw, somehow amounts to fraud is ludicrous - the original science was done by counting the number of light and dark insects, and by releasing light and dark insects, and seeing how many were eaten.
Where exactly is the fraud?
are still claimed as proof of evolution
Proof? No, just confirmation. There is a difference.
ROFL! I watched every episode of Tom Baker as Dr. Who! :-)
Interesting that you had to go to the 6th edition [of The Origin of Species] to find something that was an experiment. They do not appear in the first which I checked (and am sure you did too).
Why, you shameless little liar!
Thank you, Stultis. I distinctly remember Darwin mentioning other experiments he conducted with seeds when I read the 1st Edition.
Gore's lying is beyond shameless. It's long since entered the realm of the pitiful.
Precession of the Earth's Rotation Axis
And also this link:
And for those interested, here's what the Big Dipper looked like 100,000 years ago, and what it will look like 100,000 years from now.
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